Should wine be used for the Lord's Supper?

[garee]

Christians were called Nazarenes, because Jesus was from Nazareth.

The words "Nazarite" and "Nazarene" are unrelated.

I think some believe that is why some paintings of Jesus have long hair. However, this is inaccurate.

I think the words "Nazarite", "Nazarene" and "Nazareth" all point toward Christ. The fulfillment of the shadow as ceremonial law.

Jesus could of taken the vow and his hair was long. . As did Paul a member of the Nazarene denomination . Paul finished the vow and shaved his hair . Jesus is not shown finishing the vow as a perpetual example .

Acts 18:18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.

Hair is used to represent the unseen glory of God . In the same way as the Ark the symbolic covering of the hidden . The vow was temporal and must be shaved.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

So are you saying if you aren't a little tipsy you haven't done the Lord's supper properly?!!! Because I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it says being drunk is a good thing.

I used the phrase "warmth" not tipsy. I'd appreciate some appropriate attention to detail when being represented.

I would also add "joy". And, the Psalms state that God made wine to gladden the hearts of men.

It is perfectly appropriate to feel gladdened by the death of the Savior upon the behalf of those saved.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I think the words "Nazarite", "Nazarene" and "Nazareth" all point toward Christ. The fulfillment of the shadow as ceremonial law.

Jesus could of taken the vow and his hair was long. . As did Paul a member of the Nazarene denomination . Paul finished the vow and shaved his hair . Jesus is not shown finishing the vow as a perpetual example .

Acts 18:18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.

Hair is used to represent the unseen glory of God . In the same way as the Ark the symbolic covering of the hidden . The vow was temporal and must be shaved.

Where do you find that Jesus had long hair, that he didn't eat grapes, that he never touched a dead body, and that he didn't drink wine?

All are prohibited from Nazarites, and Nazarites are not Nazarenes.

Nazir, where the word comes from, means 'consecrated".

Jesus was anointed in one sense, but he wasn't a Nazarite as he touched dead bodies.

 

[kaylagrl]

Salvation Army doesn't have communion OR baptism.

They use to in the beginning, take communion. Some do now and some don't.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Here's a section of Scripture for all you religionists who claim that wine is not one of God's gifts, and that it gladdens man's heart.

This is obviously referring to the effects of alcohol.

There's a lot more Scriptures regarding wine that are positive. Of course, it is wrong to misuse any of God's gifts including sex, food, or whatever.

However, religionists seek to claim that enjoying the gift itself is wrong, rather than it's abuse.

As a side story, my grandpa was a deacon in a Baptist church. He was told to buy wine for the communion. He bought wine.

I suppose he didn't accept their formula, wine = grape juice.

It caused a ruckus and led to him leaving the church.

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Psalms 104:1-15 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul!
O Lord my God, you are very great!
You are clothed with splendor and majesty,
2 covering yourself with light as with a garment,
stretching out the heavens like a tent.
3 He lays the beams of his chambers on the waters;
he makes the clouds his chariot;
he rides on the wings of the wind;
4 he makes his messengers winds,
his ministers a flaming fire.
5 He set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be moved.
6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;
at the sound of your thunder they took to flight.
8 The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you appointed for them.
9 You set a boundary that they may not pass,
so that they might not again cover the earth.
10 You make springs gush forth in the valleys;
they flow between the hills;
11 they give drink to every beast of the field;
the wild donkeys quench their thirst.
12 Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell;
they sing among the branches.
13 From your lofty abode you water the mountains;
the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work.
14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
15 and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart.

 

[Melach]

Salvation Army doesn't have communion OR baptism.

salvation army sucks! didnt know its that terrible. not even the two sacraments ordinances? ok then. its just like red cross to me then, a charity organization nothing more

 

[kaylagrl]

I used the phrase "warmth" not tipsy. I'd appreciate some appropriate attention to detail when being represented.

I would also add "joy". And, the Psalms state that God made wine to gladden the hearts of men.

It is perfectly appropriate to feel gladdened by the death of the Savior upon the behalf of those saved.

You advocate a glass of wine. That may make you "warm" but to someone who has an addiction, or like me who has never had alcohol the reaction would be totally different. You're saying the only way one can truly experience communion is with alcohol? Yes or no?

 

[Ghoti2]

salvation army sucks! didnt know its that terrible. not even the two sacraments ordinances? ok then. its just like red cross to me then, a charity organization nothing more

And probably far closer to the heart of Jesus in following His example than many churches that have perfected the administration of the sacraments.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

salvation army sucks! didnt know its that terrible. not even the two sacraments ordinances? ok then. its just like red cross to me then, a charity organization nothing more

Here's their reasoning.

I think too many groups try to edit Scripture to follow their philosophy, and this is a clear case of it.


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Sacraments
Unlike other Christian churches the Salvation Army does not recognise any sacraments, such as baptism or communion, as essential.

The Army does not teach that sacraments are wrong, but it believes that they are unnecessary, and may be unhelpful to some.

Early Salvationists were concerned that many Christians had become too attached to rituals as outward signs of spiritual grace. The Salvation Army places the emphasis on personal faith and on a spiritual relationship with God which doesn't depend on anything external.

Modern day Salvationists avoid sacraments for the following reasons:

• The most a sacrament can be is a symbol
• Meaningful symbols can very easily become meaningless rituals
• Sacraments can't change the heart and life of a person - that can only happen through faith in Jesus Christ
• Jesus did not intend to create any sacramental ceremonies and there is little or nothing in the Bible to support sacraments
• Sacraments have proved divisive in Christian history
• Sacraments are an element of Christianity that may obstruct the conversion of those who have abandoned more formal churches

Communion
Because of this, the Salvation Army does not hold communion or any other form of Eucharistic service. However, it does not ban Salvationists from taking communion as a sign of fellowship when they attend another church. Salvationists believe that Jesus is present and can be remembered and celebrated at every meal, not just at a sacramental breaking of bread.

Baptism
The Army has its own ceremony for becoming a member of the church (a Soldier) - the equivalent of baptism or confirmation - but the army ceremony does not involve water and is not sacramental.

The Army does not ban Salvationists from getting baptised in another church if they wish to do so.

Relations with other churches and religions
Salvationists treat other Christian churches with respect and pray that God may use them to bring sinners to himself.

William Booth expressed this by saying that Salvationists do not see it as their God-given task to protest against the doctrines or practices of other Christians, but to attest the gospel message about the saving work of Christ.

The Army takes part in activities to promote unity, understanding and practical co-operation between the various Christian bodies.

In many countries the Salvation Army co-exists with non-Christian faiths. It respects the sincerely-held beliefs of devout non-Christians, and does not regard conflict or bitter controversy as suitable means to making known the good news of Jesus.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You advocate a glass of wine. That may make you "warm" but to someone who has an addiction, or like me who has never had alcohol the reaction would be totally different. You're saying the only way one can truly experience communion is with alcohol? Yes or no?

Read the thread. I didn't condemn grape juice for communion, but I don't think it is accurate Scripturally.

In fact, I think religionists are exalting the word of God over their traditions, and in the process lose some of the meaning God meant to be experienced through the senses.

I would also place those who forbid marriage in the same category. God meant for certain lessons to be learned in marriage related to the union the believer has with Christ. Same with wine during communion.

Humans are humans. They experience through their senses, and if God intended something to be experienced through wine at communion, it is a loss if religionists redefine the experience because they are self-righteous and think they know better than God.

 

[kaylagrl]

Here's a section of Scripture for all you religionists who claim that wine is not one of God's gifts, and that it gladdens man's heart.

This is obviously referring to the effects of alcohol.

There's a lot more Scriptures regarding wine that are positive. Of course, it is wrong to misuse any of God's gifts including sex, food, or whatever.

However, religionists seek to claim that enjoying the gift itself is wrong, rather than it's abuse.

As a side story, my grandpa was a deacon in a Baptist church. He was told to buy wine for the communion. He bought wine.

I suppose he didn't accept their formula, wine = grape juice.

It caused a ruckus and led to him leaving the church.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Psalms 104:1-15 1 Bless the Lord, O my soul!
O Lord my God, you are very great!
You are clothed with splendor and majesty,
2 covering yourself with light as with a garment,
stretching out the heavens like a tent.
3 He lays the beams of his chambers on the waters;
he makes the clouds his chariot;
he rides on the wings of the wind;
4 he makes his messengers winds,
his ministers a flaming fire.
5 He set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be moved.
6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At your rebuke they fled;
at the sound of your thunder they took to flight.
8 The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you appointed for them.
9 You set a boundary that they may not pass,
so that they might not again cover the earth.
10 You make springs gush forth in the valleys;
they flow between the hills;
11 they give drink to every beast of the field;
the wild donkeys quench their thirst.
12 Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell;
they sing among the branches.
13 From your lofty abode you water the mountains;
the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work.
14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
15 and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wi

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You advocate a glass of wine. That may make you "warm" but to someone who has an addiction, or like me who has never had alcohol the reaction would be totally different. You're saying the only way one can truly experience communion is with alcohol? Yes or no?

They could drink something else. Maybe sprite.

Because grape juice isn't wine anyways. They can't force everyone else to pretend like it is.

Same thing with the "binary sex" guys who claim we must acknowledge that they are binary and not male/female. Grape juice isn't wine. I am not going to humor them in their delusion.

And, in church when they read the Scriptures about the Passover, they need to substitute "grape juice" if the word wine is mentioned, or any place where wine is mentioned. If they are going to re-write the Bible they may as well be honest and open about it.

Instead of Jesus creating wine in the first miracle, they need to say that Jesus created grape juice. They should take white-out and correct their Bibles if they think it was grape juice.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wi

Correct, if someone ABUSES it.

It is a gift of God that can be abused, but the right use is not abuse.

 

[NayborBear]

Read the thread. I didn't condemn grape juice for communion, but I don't think it is accurate Scripturally.

In fact, I think religionists are exalting the word of God over their traditions, and in the process lose some of the meaning God meant to be experienced through the senses.

I would also place those who forbid marriage in the same category. God meant for certain lessons to be learned in marriage related to the union the believer has with Christ. Same with wine during communion.

Humans are humans. They experience through their senses, and if God intended something to be experienced through wine at communion, it is a loss if religionists redefine the experience because they are self-righteous and think they know better than God.

Well?.........T'was good, while it lasted!
Kudo's man!
Kudo's!

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

And probably far closer to the heart of Jesus in following His example than many churches that have perfected the administration of the sacraments.

I won't discredit their good works, but it seems like they are religionists to me.

By the way, they were hyper-Arminians. They believed that you could become sinless in your lifetime.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

They could drink something else. Maybe sprite.

Because grape juice isn't wine anyways. They can't force everyone else to pretend like it is.

Same thing with the "binary sex" guys who claim we must acknowledge that they are binary and not male/female. Grape juice isn't wine. I am not going to humor them in their delusion.

And, in church when they read the Scriptures about the Passover, they need to substitute "grape juice" if the word wine is mentioned, or any place where wine is mentioned. If they are going to re-write the Bible they may as well be honest and open about it.

Instead of Jesus creating wine in the first miracle, they need to say that Jesus created grape juice. They should take white-out and correct their Bibles if they think it was grape juice.

I should have said "non-binary". I am not up to speed on all this alternate sexuality delusional language.

 

[Ghoti2]

Hummm…..
One group does the good things Jesus did and taught...…. but fails to adhere to certain rituals.
And another has the performance of those rituals nailed, down-pat..... but shuns "undesirables."

I wonder who……………………….. Oh, never mind, this post won't solve anything. LOL

 

[Marcelo]

Should wine be used for the LORD's Supper?

I think so.

It's plain from Scripture that wine was used for communion, yet it is common practice in the USA for most Protestants to use a substitute such as grape juice.

I think this is a remnant of the Holiness movement.

Other excuses are used, such as the fear that alcoholics will relapse if they drink the small amount of wine in the communion thimble, but is this realistic? I am sure churches would provide a substitute if there was this concern, for those individuals.

What do you think?

And, what rationale do you use for this plainly unbiblical practice?

By the way, one individual from the Seventh Day Adventists told me it was blasphemous to acknowledge that Jesus created real alcohol, and drank alcohol in a similar conversation.

In our church we use wine (the Bible says WINE, so we use wine). The Lord's Supper is the heart of our fellowship with God and I ask Him to bring me into a deep communion, so that I regard the bread and the wine as sacred things representing the flesh and the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Deade]

Read the thread. I didn't condemn grape juice for communion, but I don't think it is accurate Scripturally.

In fact, I think religionists are exalting the word of God over their traditions, and in the process lose some of the meaning God meant to be experienced through the senses.

I would also place those who forbid marriage in the same category. God meant for certain lessons to be learned in marriage related to the union the believer has with Christ. Same with wine during communion.

Humans are humans. They experience through their senses, and if God intended something to be experienced through wine at communion, it is a loss if religionists redefine the experience because they are self-righteous and think they know better than God.

Hello UWC, I have some thoughts on these subjects I would like to share. I am a former alcoholic and I am almost allergic to it. I have gone with a brother, in fact my former sponsor in AA, to a communion in his Methodist church. They used real wine, but so little it was not an issue. I even use the salted cooking wine for cooking. One little glass of wine will defile no one. Like another said, wine only mocks if abused.

As far as women being religious leaders, I am like you I feel scripture is plain on the subject. That said, I don't let my belief get in the way if a woman has something for me from God. I respect them very much and actually set them above approach for most things. Those I fellowship with do not allow women ordained to preach.

I have seen some women married to a man that was less spiritually inclined. Sometimes they simply took over the spiritual leadership of their household, but I rarely saw a blessed household as a result. Others spiritually stronger than their husbands got with their man and presented themselves as a union to those around them. She made sure her man kept the lead but made them both better because of her strength. That is a true Proverbs 31 woman.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

My VIEW...........REMOVE NOT THE ANCIENT LANDMARKS WHICH HAVE BEEN SET!

We have no right or authority in the word of God to embellish and or change the modus operandi given by example, deed and or word in scripture on any given practice or procedure that has been outlined in the word !

we are on the same page