Should wine be used for the Lord's Supper?

[calibob]

yes I have drank and not got drunk before but alcohol Is not something to drink and chance making a mockery out of communion because of desire to feel good doing the communion.
GOD looks at the heart/motivation so then It's not so much what Is being drank but It's are you really remembering and respecting the sacrifice of JESUS In truth.

I think Catholic style communion makes a mockery out of it. I should be a shared meal and not a ceremony or sacrament. As a meal it would depend on cultural norms. My mother was of Dalmatian descent. Her family was from the islands between Croatia ane Italy. Fermented wine was a standard at most meals and celebrations and funeral receptions.

Romans 14:…20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to let his eating be a stumbling block. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble. 22Keep your belief about such matters between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.…

 

[Hullexile]

There was mention of taking communion at home. What do people do, or suggest for this? I am basically housebound so this would give me comfort in a way. (Some of the household are Catholic so might have to be ready to carry out CPR on them if they saw it).

 

[PS]

There was mention of taking communion at home. What do people do, or suggest for this? I am basically housebound so this would give me comfort in a way. (Some of the household are Catholic so might have to be ready to carry out CPR on them if they saw it).

Our pastor does it.

 

[John146]

OK..I can see which folks take the Bible serious, and which ones are bound in tradition

Which is fermented, wine or strong drink?

Numbers 6
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

New wine, the juice from the grape, is a blessing.

8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Numbers 6
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

What is the context of those verses?

Is it all Christians, or Nazarites?

Do Christians take Nazarite vows upon conversion?

Do you understand that taking verses out of context, and applying them to a different audience, is a very bad practice?

By the way, the Nazarite wasn't supposed to cut his hair either, but I don't see too many Christian men walking around with uncut hair.

 

[dcontroversal]

interestingly, the church I grew up in always served fermented wine but would give non fermented to those who objected

obviously the wine described in scripture is fermented

drinking a little Welch's would not have helped Timothy's digestion at all

FYI and to whomever it may concern:

there have been threads on drinking wine or observing the last supper with fermented drink before on CC and everyone seems to have an opinion

just like this thread

My VIEW...........REMOVE NOT THE ANCIENT LANDMARKS WHICH HAVE BEEN SET!

We have no right or authority in the word of God to embellish and or change the modus operandi given by example, deed and or word in scripture on any given practice or procedure that has been outlined in the word !

 

[John146]

What is the context of those verses?

Is it all Christians, or Nazarites?

Do Christians take Nazarite vows upon conversion?

Do you understand that taking verses out of context, and applying them to a different audience, is a very bad practice?

By the way, the Nazarite wasn't supposed to cut his hair either, but I don't see too many Christian men walking around with uncut hair.

Not who but what is the context that matters. These verses show that God’s word defines wine as grape juice or strong drink. Know the context when the word is used.

Is the following grape juice or fermented wine? Notice the context is strong drink. The Lord calls fermented wine a mocker. I’m not drinking something that God’s word calls a mocker.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

My VIEW...........REMOVE NOT THE ANCIENT LANDMARKS WHICH HAVE BEEN SET!

We have no right or authority in the word of God to embellish and or change the modus operandi given by example, deed and or word in scripture on any given practice or procedure that has been outlined in the word !

I totally agree, and that's exactly what Methodist women of the 1800's did.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Not who but what is the context that matters. These verses show that God’s word defines wine as grape juice or strong drink. Know the context when the word is used.

Is the following grape juice or fermented wine? Notice the context is strong drink. The Lord calls fermented wine a mocker. I’m not drinking something that God’s word calls a mocker.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Do you acknowledge that Jesus created wine in his first recorded miracle? If it is evil to drink alcohol by nature, then why did he do this?

Did he drink wine himself? If he was an observant Jew, he did. He observed Passover every year. And, it's obvious to me he drank alcohol, as one of the accusations of the religious authorities related to drunkenness (which was a lie, but I think he did drink alcohol like any other normal Jew).

Was he contributing to the delinquency of those at the wedding?

By the way, part of the deception of Eve involved adding excessive restrictions to the word of God. She claimed God said that they weren't allowed to touch the tree. He said no such thing. She added her own rules, just like the Pharisees did.

Just to make it clear: I am not promoting drunkenness but only whether wine should be used for communion.

How tradition-bound are we? Time to barbecue some sacred cows

 

[dcontroversal]

I totally agree, and that's exactly what Methodist women of the 1800's did.

I actually have been looking into this quit a bit and the concept of how the O.T. looks forward to the cross and the N.T. looks back.....in the O.T. they were to use unleavend bread.....look the word up in the New when the prepararations are made for the Lord's supper....there is a word change......they prepare for the feast of unleavend bread, but when Jesus breaks the bread the word for leavened bread is used.....

O.T. --> looks forward to sinless sacrifice

N.T. --> looks back on him becoming sin for us and taking our sin in the cross

The sinless became sin for us....

NOT SAYING anything other than I have noticed this change in verbiage and am looking into this intently because when it comes to the "LORD'S SUPPER" we need to be correct in our practice IMV

Wine <--contains yeast or fermented sugars.....??

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Not who but what is the context that matters. These verses show that God’s word defines wine as grape juice or strong drink. Know the context when the word is used.

Is the following grape juice or fermented wine? Notice the context is strong drink. The Lord calls fermented wine a mocker. I’m not drinking something that God’s word calls a mocker.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I am not sure where you get this impression that wine is the same as grape juice from this verse.

The Nazarite was not supposed to eat any grape products, but that doesn't prove they are all defined as wine.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I actually have been looking into this quit a bit and the concept of how the O.T. looks forward to the cross and the N.T. looks back.....in the O.T. they were to use unleavend bread.....look the word up in the New when the prepararations are made for the Lord's supper....there is a word change......they prepare for the feast of unleavend bread, but when Jesus breaks the bread the word for leavened bread is used.....

O.T. --> looks forward to sinless sacrifice

N.T. --> looks back on him becoming sin for us and taking our sin in the cross

The sinless became sin for us....

NOT SAYING anything other than I have noticed this change in verbiage and am looking into this intently because when it comes to the "LORD'S SUPPER" we need to be correct in our practice IMV

Wine <--contains yeast or fermented sugars.....??

Interesting thought. Not sure I agree that we should use leavened bread for the LORD's supper but it's interesting.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I actually have been looking into this quit a bit and the concept of how the O.T. looks forward to the cross and the N.T. looks back.....in the O.T. they were to use unleavend bread.....look the word up in the New when the prepararations are made for the Lord's supper....there is a word change......they prepare for the feast of unleavend bread, but when Jesus breaks the bread the word for leavened bread is used.....

O.T. --> looks forward to sinless sacrifice

N.T. --> looks back on him becoming sin for us and taking our sin in the cross

The sinless became sin for us....

NOT SAYING anything other than I have noticed this change in verbiage and am looking into this intently because when it comes to the "LORD'S SUPPER" we need to be correct in our practice IMV

Wine <--contains yeast or fermented sugars.....??

At one communion I attended, pieces of bread were soaked in grape juice by the person in the common cup and eaten. I think this was at a Methodist mission.

I think this preserved the common cup symbolism but it required leavened bread to soak up the grape juice.

However, I wouldn't have used grape juice.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have noticed another farce in this thread.....the concept that WATER was undrinkable.....I call BS.....the bible has numerous accounts of WELLS being dug or dug and PEOPLE, INCLUDING JESUS drawing water or having water drawn from wells.....I dare to say the water was PROBABLY better than what we have today and will cite an example......I have a spring fed creek that runs on my property....and a well head on a neighboring property.....A friend had the water tested from the nearest town, the well and my creek.....the water in the creek tested BETTER than the other two sources.....

It is ridiculous to believe that they did not have good water to drink.......

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I have noticed another farce in this thread.....the concept that WATER was undrinkable.....I call BS.....the bible has numerous accounts of WELLS being dug or dug and PEOPLE, INCLUDING JESUS drawing water or having water drawn from wells.....I dare to say the water was PROBABLY better than what we have today and will cite an example......I have a spring fed creek that runs on my property....and a well head on a neighboring property.....A friend had the water tested from the nearest town, the well and my creek.....the water in the creek tested BETTER than the other two sources.....

It is ridiculous to believe that they did not have good water to drink.......

Yeah, they drank alcohol for pleasure.

The misuse of a gift of God does not negate the fact that it is a gift of God, meant to be used lawfully. This includes sex or food or any other gift of God that has lawful uses.

Getting drunk is immoral, but using alcohol lawfully is not.

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting thought. Not sure I agree that we should use leavened bread for the LORD's supper but it's interesting.

Not saying we should, but why the change in the N.T.....

Notice
Matthew 26:17 feast of unleavend bread

Matthew 26:26 Jesus took bread..

In verse 26.....look up the word bread....it is leavened bread

There is a reason for the change......just saying

 

[PS]

At one communion I attended, pieces of bread were soaked in grape juice by the person in the common cup and eaten. I think this was at a Methodist mission.

I think this preserved the common cup symbolism but it required leavened bread to soak up the grape juice.

However, I wouldn't have used grape juice.

Some in the congregation may have had concerns about hygiene?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Not saying we should, but why the change in the N.T.....

Notice
Matthew 26:17 feast of unleavend bread

Matthew 26:26 Jesus took bread..

In verse 26.....look up the word bread....it is leavened bread

There is a reason for the change......just saying

It is a possibility. Jesus became sin (2 Cor 5:21) in terms of imputation.

I have also heard that the symbolism in some of the offerings relate to Jesus being "raised" from the grave like leaven is raised.

I haven't taken the time to study in depth though.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Some in the congregation may have had concerns about hygiene?

Probably so. This was at a rescue mission.

I believe it is called an intinction.

https://www.gotquestions.org/intinction-communion.html

 

[dcontroversal]

It is a possibility. Jesus became sin (2 Cor 5:21) in terms of imputation.

I have also heard that the symbolism in some of the offerings relate to Jesus being "raised" from the grave like leaven is raised.

I haven't taken the time to study in depth though.

I really think there is something to it.......he that knew no sin became sin for us.......I can see God making the change to force us to view the concept of being sinless and then taking on the sin of the whole world.......as a matter of fact.....I specifically quit taking the Lord's supper to investigate this completely while seeking to be enlightened on this matter.....we cannot alleviate the absolute truth that the O.T. looks forward to the Cross while the N.T. LOOKS BACK........