Should wine be used for the Lord's Supper?

[UnitedWithChrist]

Well, discussing this topic has caused me to think a bit more about communion.

I suppose I wouldn't feel guilty if a communion at another church or a mission used leavened bread. I wouldn't be thinking that it implied Christ was sinful in nature, and would focus on the fact that Jesus became sin for me.

I am still not convinced that self-righteous Methodist women from the 1800s should dictate the use of grape juice over wine. In fact, I'm against it. I believe the fruit of women controlling that organization has proven itself. If it wasn't for the African Methodists, the United Methodist church would be marrying homosexuals now.

 

[Melach]

New wine, the juice from the grape, is a blessing.

8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

already refuted that. new wine is also alcoholic

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

no one would think they meant "these guys are full of grape juice"

 

[PS]

Probably so. This was at a rescue mission.

I believe it is called an intinction.

https://www.gotquestions.org/intinction-communion.html

Thanks for the info. I did not know that. If they take the wine soaked bread from off the same spoon, I would not feel comfortable, however if I took a piece of bread and dipped it in the wine myself, I would be ok. Wouldn't it be difficult passing both the bread and wine down the row at the same time? I can imagine a few accidents, unless they all go out to the front, and then people who have difficulty walking would have a problem.

 

[John146]

Was he contributing to the delinquency of those at the wedding?

Nope, that’s why I believe the context is new wine, fresh grape juice.

Notice fresh grape juice is what’s being used and demanded by God.

Nehemiah 10:39 For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.

 

[John146]

I am not sure where you get this impression that wine is the same as grape juice from this verse.

The Nazarite was not supposed to eat any grape products, but that doesn't prove they are all defined as wine.

Grape juice from the cluster is wine, new wine. Strong drink from the grape has been fermented. “Boy, that drink sure is strong.”

 

[John146]

already refuted that. new wine is also alcoholic

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

no one would think they meant "these guys are full of grape juice"

Are you willing to put something in your body God’s word calls a mocker? Not me. Fermented wine will mock you.

 

[John146]

Yeah, they drank alcohol for pleasure.

The misuse of a gift of God does not negate the fact that it is a gift of God, meant to be used lawfully. This includes sex or food or any other gift of God that has lawful uses.

Getting drunk is immoral, but using alcohol lawfully is not.

Better drink up now because when we get to heaven we will be drinking new, fresh wine. Nothing spoiled in heaven.😉

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

 

[Melach]

Are you willing to put something in your body God’s word calls a mocker? Not me. Fermented wine will mock you.

Acts 2:13 says what it says. wine means wine. Jesus put wine in His body. end of discussion.

Wine is a mocker if taken in excess

 

[garee]

What is the context of those verses?

Is it all Christians, or Nazarites?

Do Christians take Nazarite vows upon conversion?

Do you understand that taking verses out of context, and applying them to a different audience, is a very bad practice?

By the way, the Nazarite wasn't supposed to cut his hair either, but I don't see too many Christian men walking around with uncut hair.

Christians identify with the word Nazarites. The first mentioned denomination on this side of the cross was the Nazarenes. Taking vows seems more of a option.

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:Acts24:5

Wine is anything that intoxicates or invigorates. Pride could be considered wine . Self control, the fruit of His Spirit is the goal

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

In Genesis a description of the imputed righteousness we are clothed with is given . The gospel hid in that parable. Using both wine and milk. Milk in respect to the word speaks of the grace of God . Where wine more of the meat of the word, doing the will.

Genesis 49:10-12 King James Version (KJV)The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

It would appear the fresh grapes like living water were used before corruption comes and sets as a toxin .

Genesis 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.

 

[Dino246]

I am still not convinced that self-righteous Methodist women from the 1800s should dictate the use of grape juice over wine. In fact, I'm against it. I believe the fruit of women controlling that organization has proven itself. If it wasn't for the African Methodists, the United Methodist church would be marrying homosexuals now.

How about applying some sound logic. Trace the history instead of making unfounded and insulting assertions. You're welcome to your opinion regarding the role of women in the church, but there is no need to be an ignorant chauvinist.

 

[NayborBear]

Personally, I think it is mainly simply Religious Legalists who get hooked-up over what is used for Communion. While on the road, a fair ways from civilization, my wife and I once used Ritz Crackers and Pepsi because we had nothing else. I kinda doubt God fell off His throne that morning.

I HIGHLY doubt Jesus found it "unacceptable!"
I'd go as far to say the Father "blessed y'all the more for it!"
I believe He "treasures" resourcefulness for His Name's sake!

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Christians identify with the word Nazarites. The first mentioned denomination on this side of the cross was the Nazarenes. Taking vows seems more of a option.

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:Acts24:5

Wine is anything that intoxicates or invigorates. Pride could be considered wine . Self control, the fruit of His Spirit is the goal

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

In Genesis a description of the imputed righteousness we are clothed with is given . The gospel hid in that parable. Using both wine and milk. Milk in respect to the word speaks of the grace of God . Where wine more of the meat of the word, doing the will.

Genesis 49:10-12 King James Version (KJV)The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

It would appear the fresh grapes like living water were used before corruption comes and sets as a toxin .

Genesis 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.

Christians were called Nazarenes, because Jesus was from Nazareth.

The words "Nazarite" and "Nazarene" are unrelated.

I think some believe that is why some paintings of Jesus have long hair. However, this is inaccurate.

 

[kaylagrl]

Didn’t this get it’s legs around the time of prohibition?

Haven't read all the replies but I believe it was William Booth who substituted grape juice because so many he was reaching had issues with addictions. The Bible says "if meat causes my brother to stumble", use the grape juice.

 

[garee]

It is a possibility. Jesus became sin (2 Cor 5:21) in terms of imputation.

I have also heard that the symbolism in some of the offerings relate to Jesus being "raised" from the grave like leaven is raised.

I haven't taken the time to study in depth though.

That new testament ceremonial law (1 Corinthians 11) came after the reformation . This is when men and woman, Jew and gentile alike could celebrate it together as one. In he old pagan order woman were separated with a high wall from the ceremony, as were the gentiles from the Jewish woman. 3 levels of separation

The breaking of the bread with the drinking of the cup along with the head uncovered for the man with the hair covered for the woman was one ordinance. Not separate from one another.

Together the church is used a representative glory of the upcoming consummation .This is when we receive our new bodies. They will be as the bride of Christ. Neither male nor female Jew nor gentile. The two become one.

Many have made the head covering (men) hair covering (woman) part as if it was a fashion statement as a fad.

 

[kaylagrl]

This is off topic, but some Presbyterians practice paedocommunion, which is giving babies the wine and bread once they have experienced infant baptism. Eastern Orthodox do it, too.

Both practices are utterly useless and un-Biblical for a baby.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Nope, that’s why I believe the context is new wine, fresh grape juice.

Notice fresh grape juice is what’s being used and demanded by God.

Nehemiah 10:39 For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers, where are the vessels of the sanctuary, and the priests that minister, and the porters, and the singers: and we will not forsake the house of our God.

That's not what new wine is.

Here's an article on the different claims regarding this, including yours:

https://credohouse.org/blog/did-jesus-turn-water-into-wine-or-grape-juice

 

[kaylagrl]

Right..I mean, we are kind of stuck with the results of the insistence of self-righteous church ladies of the 1800's. That's why men should form doctrine, and not be led about by women.

Do tell! You wanna run that one by me again?!!

FYI our doctrines are from the Word, God Himself, not men. smh

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Haven't read all the replies but I believe it was William Booth who substituted grape juice because so many he was reaching had issues with addictions. The Bible says "if meat causes my brother to stumble", use the grape juice.

Salvation Army doesn't have communion OR baptism.

 

[kaylagrl]

My position is that communion has overtones concerning union with Christ, and the slight alcohol creates a social environment which is reminiscent of this.

I don't believe that the amount of alcohol was just a thimble anyways.

God uses various ordinances like this to engage the senses and to preach the gospel through sensory means.

I know it's difficult for mass production, assembly line Christians to comprehend the original intentions, but I believe there was a reason behind the use of a small amount of alcohol at the LORD's supper.

So are you saying if you aren't a little tipsy you haven't done the Lord's supper properly?!!! Because I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it says being drunk is a good thing.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Do tell! You wanna run that one by me again?!!

FYI our doctrines are from the Word, God Himself, not men. smh

http://www.umc.org/who-we-are/methodist-history-controversy-communion-and-welchs-grape-juice

This outlines the history of the Women's Christian Temperance Union in this regard.