Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

No one reads my posts so I sometimes make the letters big. Plus my eyes are bad and I sometimes subconciously think other's are too.

And I don't have an axe to grind. I just think this place needs a culture change. And I don't think it's right to misquote and misrepresent people. But that's all some of these people have.

This is not about a truthful argument but holding a position, mocking and laughing at
those who do not agree.

Perseverance is an important part of our walk in Christ, it is about being refined, purified,
getting things in their right order. But if you are talking to people who are not walking
with the Lord, who daily sin without repentance, one should expect nothing else.

Foundations laid in someones heart establish the truth. Failure to lay the right foundations
leads to the mess and abuse you see here. Pearls before swine is very apt.
They can be dressed up many ways, but once they accept they can behave as they want with
impunity, you are just talking to lawless people. And hard hearts will not listen because there
is nothing that will change or that can be addressed.

You can learn different ways of shining ones light on the failures and hypocrisies that are so
apparent. Being a sinner is really hip with these cool doods so Jesus does not register or His
teachings, or a righteous walk which is impossible for them, obviously.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What is amazing is how people can know scripture, know of the Lord, and yet miss it all.

Jesus called the teachers of the law as being blind. And their blindness was essentially would
they allow their hearts to change and could they humble themselves and repent.

And the answer was no. So the miracles and Christs authority meant nothing, because without
repentance the words would never effect change and it became only a power struggle for
influence and direction.

Nothing has changed, this battle is still the same. Without a heart of flesh, purity and righteousness,
a Holy Temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells, nothing else rings true.

I know a lot of members hate this view of Jesus, and by this declare where they are before the Lord.
But I must be true to Jesus and not man, and preach His word to eternal life.

Oddly these same people claim John is saying they have eternal life without walking righteously or
obeying Jesus, which actually testifies to the opposite. God bless you, and praise the Lord He won
the victory on the cross that we might walk like Him, Amen.

 

[Macabeus]

Not if a person LOVES the LORD, it doesn't. Love acts freely and cheerfully and joyfully

What did you find "funny" about this post, Under Grace". Love, freedom, cheer, and joy are funny concepts?

 

[Macabeus]

This is not about a truthful argument but holding a position, mocking and laughing at
those who do not agree.

Perseverance is an important part of our walk in Christ, it is about being refined, purified,
getting things in their right order. But if you are talking to people who are not walking
with the Lord, who daily sin without repentance, one should expect nothing else.

Foundations laid in someones heart establish the truth. Failure to lay the right foundations
leads to the mess and abuse you see here. Pearls before swine is very apt.
They can be dressed up many ways, but once they accept they can behave as they want with
impunity, you are just talking to lawless people. And hard hearts will not listen because there
is nothing that will change or that can be addressed.

You can learn different ways of shining ones light on the failures and hypocrisies that are so
apparent. Being a sinner is really hip with these cool doods so Jesus does not register or His
teachings, or a righteous walk which is impossible for them, obviously.

Good post. Your first line "This is not about a truthful argument but holding a position, mocking and laughing at those who do not agree" sums it up.

It goes something like this...

a. They say something unbiblical

b. You post a reply of rebuttal

c. Then they accuse you of saying ten things you didn't say.

d. Then you clarify.

e. Then they accuse you of saying ten more things you didnt say.

f. You clarify again.

g. Usually at this point, either name calling, mockery, or both begins.

 

[Macabeus]

Not if a person LOVES the LORD, it doesn't. Love acts freely and cheerfully and joyfully

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Why would you post a funny emoji after this post, Under Grace?

 

[Macabeus]

we perservere in love and hope. Not compulsion, UG

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Something about this one is funny to Under Grace too.

Mocking what 1 John 1:4 teaches.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now you are misquoting yourself. You said "a person cannot bear anything unless there is a process of growth and maturity". But you are contradicted by the passage that says "WHOEVER abides in me brings forth fruit." John 15:5

Who abides in Jesus? Mature Christians or Christians in general?

I am not misquoting nor contradicting anything and you have already proven your dishonesty since day one...so.....keep on being deceptive.....exactly why many already have your blather on ignore!

 

[dcontroversal]

If we are going with the metaphor, a tree bears fruit only upon maturity Mac.

AMEN......and the saved, compared to wheat BY JESUS only bear GRAIN after a process of growth and maturity......as a matter of fact name one plant, tree, bush that has the "INSTA FRUIT" that he peddles.......

 

[dcontroversal]

IF you keep accusing me of saying that works are necessary for salvation etc. you are not reading my posts.

You have never schooled me. Jesus schools you if you read John 15:5. WHOEVER abides in Him bears fruit. When did you begin to abide in Him. When you believed or when you believed and then matured and grew for a while.

You obviously do not understand the word abide and or the application of the word.......hence the fallacy of 'INSTA FRUIT" that you peddle......while ignoring the truth that it takes growth and maturity to bear fruit.......

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not, you guys are.

Does it take thousands of years for wheat to grow? Because if I use the same principle of interpretation you are using right now with the parable of the wheat and the tares, that would mean it takes thousands of years for wheat to grow. It's called making an analogy walk on all fours.

Does kernel of wheat INSTANTLY bear fruit when it gets planted? a simple YES or NO will suffice

 

[dcontroversal]

What was the context, just testifying about the faith or other fruit that Dcon had in mind.

The principle is a proven fact...even his denial and or stance on wheat proves him wrong.....when he can show me a WHEAT kernel being planted and it INSTANTLY POPS and bears a head of wheat then he has a case......

When one plants wheat, and I have drilled hundreds of acres of wheat, does it have to GROW before it bears grain.....YEP.........!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

He said it takes a period of growth and maturity to produce ANYTHING. Anything excludes everything does it not.

So the "testimony that produces fruit" is included in his statement.

SO is his statement right or wrong.

...and remember, he did not say "it MAY take years", he said "it takes years period". This is not a contingent possibility, it is spoken as a universal necessity.

I said for SOME........or it MAY TAKE.....get your facts straight pal.......misrepresenting what I have said makes you a what exactly???

 

[gb9]

How long ago?

Before I post the link to the quote, please answer the following two questions...

Can a new Christian bear fruit, say by sharing a testimony that God uses to convert others? Yes or no?

and would this be bearing fruit?



Tell that to DC and GB9 who use them to teach it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING.

and, not even 72 hours did you go without bringing up fruit and time . ( had a feeling it would go this way).

you think one bearing fruit is proof of salvation, just as I thought.

you are a judgemental fruit inspector, this time I offer no apology or retraction.

I am calling it as it is.

 

[dcontroversal]

"1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth "

This is a possibility.

"2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER"

I would agree with this.

"3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything"

I would disagree here:

Edited to add "a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything"

Which one of the following verses proves insta fruit? The principle I stated is proven by the scriptures and nature.....There is NO insta fruit found in scripture...and even the parable of the SOILS proves that GOOD soil and GROWTH are required to bear fruit.....end of story!

"But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.

"The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head.

and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.

"Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold."

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

menó: to stay, abide, remain
Original Word: μένω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: menó
Phonetic Spelling: (men'-o)
Definition: to stay, abide, remain
Usage: I remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: I wait for, await.

 

[dcontroversal]

and, not even 72 hours did you go without bringing up fruit and time . ( had a feeling it would go this way).

you think one bearing fruit is proof of salvation, just as I thought.

you are a judgemental fruit inspector, this time I offer no apology or retraction.

I am calling it as it is.

Post 97474...both are wrong.........the bible, nature and the words of JESUS himself proves that growth and maturity are required to bear fruit.....but hey...he will argue this to the proverbial "tenth degree" ....like my AU friends say when one is being obstinate...WHAT EVZZZZZZ done arguing ignorant points.......POST 97474 is my stance on the matter

 

[gb9]

What is amazing is how people can know scripture, know of the Lord, and yet miss it all.

Jesus called the teachers of the law as being blind. And their blindness was essentially would
they allow their hearts to change and could they humble themselves and repent.

And the answer was no. So the miracles and Christs authority meant nothing, because without
repentance the words would never effect change and it became only a power struggle for
influence and direction.

Nothing has changed, this battle is still the same. Without a heart of flesh, purity and righteousness,
a Holy Temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells, nothing else rings true.

I know a lot of members hate this view of Jesus, and by this declare where they are before the Lord.
But I must be true to Jesus and not man, and preach His word to eternal life.

Oddly these same people claim John is saying they have eternal life without walking righteously or
obeying Jesus, which actually testifies to the opposite. God bless you, and praise the Lord He won
the victory on the cross that we might walk like Him, Amen.

what is even more amazing is people claim to believe in and follow Scripture, yet refuse to recognize the definitions of the words it is written with, as you do.

 

[Macabeus]

I said for SOME........or it MAY TAKE.....get your facts straight pal.......misrepresenting what I have said makes you a what exactly???

The word "SOME" is not in the quote.

• So what.......you have still proved nothing except in your mind.......and I will say it again.....
  
  1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth
  2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER
  3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything
  
  Get your facts straight...you are looking like a fool......

Let me show who the liar is...
Where is the word "SOME" in the bolded sentence, Deceiver. Why are you saying things and denying them

 

[Macabeus]

Post 97474...both are wrong.........the bible, nature and the words of JESUS himself proves that growth and maturity are required to bear fruit.....but hey...he will argue this to the proverbial "tenth degree" ....like my AU friends say when one is being obstinate...WHAT EVZZZZZZ done arguing ignorant points.......POST 97474 is my stance on the matter

Can a new believer give a testimony that God can use to produce fruit through him or her?

 

[dcontroversal]

Verses on reaping and bearing.....NOTE....all require TIME

Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. "For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit.

HAHHAHAH All through the bible....time, growth, maturity = fruit..............the generalized statement rings true......NOTHING produces INSTA fruit....

 

[Macabeus]

Verses on reaping and bearing.....NOTE....all require TIME

Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. "For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit.

HAHHAHAH All through the bible....time, growth, maturity = fruit..............the generalized statement rings true......NOTHING produces INSTA fruit....

Can a new believer give a testimony that God can use to produce fruit through him or her?