Not By Works

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Macabeus said:
Here we go with the fruitless, immature name calling and false accusations again

WHERE DID I SAY salvation is dependant on works. Post number please. If you cannot reply, you are the deceiver.
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My response was to the bolded.......and all I did was quote scripture to show salvation/justification is not dependent upon works and you came back with a mouthy comment

Macabeus said:
I am talking about AFTER justification. Do you ever grow beyond initial justification or do you just stay fruitless and barren of works. You have just resorted to a strawman argument.


I said

dcontroversal said:
No I have not...salvation is NOT dependent upon works pal....get your facts straight deceiver

No I have not-->You have just resorted to a strawman argument. <---get your facts straight deceiver

salvation is NOT dependent upon works pal
 
azamzimtoti said:
I like my preserves in this form.

2duau89.jpg
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Strawberry is my fav....or peach
 
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UnderGrace said:
Why then did Paul even write the letters to exhort believers ...like Colossi ans if everything is so automatic??

The word is "abide" Jesus did not say let me control you.

Just as silly as tongues
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Who said it was automatic. The Scriptures produce faith, faith produces hope and love, and hope and love produces perserverance.

Why did John write "everyone who has this hope in them purifies themselves just as He is pure". 1 John 3:4

Is this a universal statement? Yes

Is it automatic? No
 
Macabeus said:
I showed that what I said and "saved to the uttermost" are fully compatible. No false dichotomy. Just a failure to understand basic theology by you
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It's not Mac, there is nothing wrong with the scriptures you quoted. That said, you are not taking into account human nature being sheep like, we need a prodding with the exhortations but also comfort from the "uttermost" declarations in scripture.

What I see in your posts is to take an extreme position. This is how Calvinism started and all the other "isms" such as Lordship "theology" etc.
 
dcontroversal said:
KIND of LIKE --->or do you just stay fruitless and barren of works. You have just resorted to a strawman argument.
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Yes, because when someone mentions the blessings of obedience, you act like they are saying acts of obedience are part of what saves us, which is a strawman argument. Then you keep going back to justification instead of talking about how we are called to press forward towards the high calling of God.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 
azamzimtoti said:
It's not Mac, there is nothing wrong with the scriptures you quoted. That said, you are not taking into account human nature being sheep like, we need a prodding with the exhortations but also comfort from the "uttermost" declarations in scripture.

What I see in your posts is to take an extreme position. This is how Calvinism started and all the other "isms" such as Lordship "theology" etc.
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No, Under Grace said "Christians do not perservere". I responded. That is what happened. Don't edit post history.

Knowing that it is the grace of God that preserves me and keeps me unto perserverance is VERY COMFORTING TO ME. It means that even when I fall short, God's grace is there for me, and that He gives me eternal life and no one can snatch Him from His Hand.

It's taking the pressure of performance off of me and putting it on Him.

If not for Him, I would have fallen away years ago.
 
Scripture produces faith. Faith produces hope. Hope produces perserverance.

None of these are possible apart from God's grace.
 
Macabeus said:
No, Under Grace said "Christians do not perservere". I responded. That is what happened. Don't edit post history.
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I haven't edited your post history.

Knowing that it is the grace of God that preserves me and keeps me unto perserverance is VERY COMFORTING TO ME. It means that even when I fall short, God's grace is there for me, and that He gives me eternal life and no one can snatch Him from His Hand.

It's taking the pressure of performance off of me and putting it on Him.

If not for Him, I would have fallen away years ago.
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This seems to be somewhat of a retraction of your stance?
 
dcontroversal said:
My response was to the bolded.......and all I did was quote scripture to show salvation/justification is not dependent upon works and you came back with a mouthy comment

Macabeus said:
I am talking about AFTER justification. Do you ever grow beyond initial justification or do you just stay fruitless and barren of works. You have just resorted to a strawman argument.


I said

dcontroversal said:
No I have not...salvation is NOT dependent upon works pal....get your facts straight deceiver

No I have not-->You have just resorted to a strawman argument. <---get your facts straight deceiver

salvation is NOT dependent upon works pal
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number one- I never said salvation is dependant on works. Where's the post where I said that. You will not produce it, because it's not there. You are making things up and misrepresenting me. Over and over again

Number two- Where's the strawman? We were talking about fruit and works after salvation. You acted like we were talking about conditions of salvation, which is the strawman. you and your minions who call you doc are the ones who builds strawmen

Under Grace said Christians do not perservere, and like a good gang of theological thugs you defended her by attacking me.
 
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azamzimtoti said:
I haven't edited your post history.



This seems to be somewhat of a retraction of your stance?
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Only because you do not understand what I originally said.

Christians perservere because THEY ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.

This is the doctrine of perserverance, AND IT IS BIBLICAL.

Do you want to try to refute this, Azamzimtoti?
 
Macabeus said:
Only because you do not understand what I originally said.

Christians perservere because THEY ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.

This is the doctrine of perserverance, AND IT IS BIBLICAL.

Do you want to try to refute this, Azamzimtoti?
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No need to shout. I can see that you have an axe to grind. Pass.
 
REPEAT

Christians perservere because THEY ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.

We are saved by grace through faith, we are sanctified by grace through faith, we are kept by grace through faith

And it's all by the righteousness of God.

You all are the ones creating false dichotomies, not me.
 
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azamzimtoti said:
No need to shout. I can see that you have an axe to grind. Pass.
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No one reads my posts so I sometimes make the letters big. Plus my eyes are bad and I sometimes subconciously think other's are too.

And I don't have an axe to grind. I just think this place needs a culture change. And I don't think it's right to misquote and misrepresent people. But that's all some of these people have.
 
Macabeus said:
No one reads my posts so I sometimes make the letters big. Plus my eyes are bad and I sometimes subconciously think other's are too.

And I don't have an axe to grind. I just think this place needs a culture change. And I don't think it's right to misquote and misrepresent people. But that's all some of these people have.
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They read them Mac, they don't agree with how you are presenting the scripture.
 
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