Not By Works

[Macabeus]

unto maturity <-->a process of growth and MATURITY.............

Yes, and according to Jesus, everyone who abides (that's a present tense)in Him bears fruit.

Do only those who reach maturity bear fruit?

 

[BibletruthSOP]

I think you do not know what you are talking about as evidenced by your losable salvation maintained by self effort....and sanctification is dual in usage.....ONE is positionally and eternally in Christ the other is based UPON a process of growth and maturity.......and of course I fully expect you to buck like you are riding a bull in the local Rodeo....

LOL

 

[Macabeus]

If I'm reading this correctly "bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity" I would agree.

That's not what he said. He said it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING. (in reference to fruit)

SO that means NO FRUIT whatsoever until the person has had time to grow and mature.

Can a brand new Christian give a testimony that brings forth fruit? Or does he have to wait a while to confess Jesus?

 

[Macabeus]

we read your posts. we just do not agree with them at times.

it really makes you look bad when you constantly say ' we don't read , we don't understand, we misrepresent what you say'

you just get offended when you are disagreed with. ( and proven wrong, as I have schooled you about producing fruit many times. )

IF you keep accusing me of saying that works are necessary for salvation etc. you are not reading my posts.

You have never schooled me. Jesus schools you if you read John 15:5. WHOEVER abides in Him bears fruit. When did you begin to abide in Him. When you believed or when you believed and then matured and grew for a while.

 

[Macabeus]

we read your posts. we just do not agree with them at times.

it really makes you look bad when you constantly say ' we don't read , we don't understand, we misrepresent what you say'

you just get offended when you are disagreed with. ( and proven wrong, as I have schooled you about producing fruit many times. )

and bringing up how long it takes a fruit tree to bear fruit is not schooling someone, it is making an analogy to walk on all fours.

If you do that to the parable of the wheat and the tares, then it takes wheat thousands of years to grow. Because the growth of the wheat in that parable lasted until THE END OF THE AGE.

So don't be so quick to proclaim victory.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Do only those who reach maturity bear fruit?

If we are going with the metaphor, a tree bears fruit only upon maturity Mac.

 

[Macabeus]

If I'm reading this correctly "bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity" I would agree.

When does the process begin? When you believer or after you believe and add a period of growth and maturity? What does John 15:5 say?

 

[azamzimtoti]

That's not what he said. He said it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING. (in reference to fruit)

SO that means NO FRUIT whatsoever until the person has had time to grow and mature.

Can a brand new Christian give a testimony that brings forth fruit? Or does he have to wait a while to confess Jesus?

"Can a brand new Christian give a testimony that brings forth fruit? Or does he have to wait a while to confess Jesus?"

Of course a new Christian can give testimony. But let's not abuse the metaphor/parable.

 

[Macabeus]

If we are going with the metaphor, a tree bears fruit only upon maturity Mac.

So does wheat take thousands of years to grow? See parable of wheat and tares.

You are making an analogy walk on all fours.

And are you saying that a person who is in Jesus, but is not fully mature in Him cannot bear fruit? IS this what John 15:5 teaches?

 

[Macabeus]

"Can a brand new Christian give a testimony that brings forth fruit? Or does he have to wait a while to confess Jesus?"

Of course a new Christian can give testimony. But let's not abuse the metaphor/parable.

I'm not, you guys are.

Does it take thousands of years for wheat to grow? Because if I use the same principle of interpretation you are using right now with the parable of the wheat and the tares, that would mean it takes thousands of years for wheat to grow. It's called making an analogy walk on all fours.

 

[azamzimtoti]

So does wheat take thousands of years to grow? See parable of wheat and tares.

You are making an analogy walk on all fours.

Not really, you are the one making sweeping analogies

And are you saying that a person who is in Jesus, but is not fully mature in Him cannot bear fruit? IS this what John 15:5 teaches?

Never said that, but you are showing a tendency to extremes, which isn't helping one iota.

 

[Macabeus]

"

Of course a new Christian can give testimony. But let's not abuse the metaphor/parable.

Can God use that testimony to produce fruit through that new Christian?

Remember, the question is "does it take a period of growth and maturity for a believer to bear fruit?"

 

[Macabeus]

Not really, you are the one making sweeping analogies



Never said that, but you are showing a tendency to extremes, which isn't helping one iota.

If I use the same principle of interpretation you are using with the fruit tree analogy with the wheat and tares parable, wheat takes thousands of years to grow or else I am abusing it.

Do the events that the parable of the wheat and tares signify go all the way to the end of the age or not.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Remember, the question is "does it take a period of growth and maturity for a believer to bear fruit?"

What was the context, just testifying about the faith or other fruit that Dcon had in mind.

 

[Macabeus]

So can God use the testimony and transformed life of a new believer to bear fruit through him or her? Yes or no.

 

[Macabeus]

What was the context, just testifying about the faith or other fruit that Dcon had in mind.

He said it takes a period of growth and maturity to produce ANYTHING. Anything excludes everything does it not.

So the "testimony that produces fruit" is included in his statement.

SO is his statement right or wrong.

...and remember, he did not say "it MAY take years", he said "it takes years period". This is not a contingent possibility, it is spoken as a universal necessity.

 

[azamzimtoti]

If I use the same principle of interpretation you are using with the fruit tree analogy with the wheat and tares parable, wheat takes thousands of years to grow or else I am abusing it.

This is a loaded question, and in a sense you are stretching the issue, it could be abuse,

Do the events that the parable of the wheat and tares signify go all the way to the end of the age or not.

Ha, I have a feeling that what you consider tares is not relevant to the Church of Christ, there are no tares in the Church.

 

[azamzimtoti]

He said it takes a period of growth and maturity to produce ANYTHING. Anything excludes everything does it not.

So the "testimony that produces fruit" is included in his statement.

SO is his statement right or wrong.

...and remember, he did not say "it MAY take years", he said "it takes years period". This is not a contingent possibility, it is spoken as a universal necessity.

You would need to cite the original post Mac.

Dcon may not have meant how you are "taking" his statement. I don't know as this thread has thousands of posts.

 

[Macabeus]

E="azamzimtoti, post: 3900819, member: 283097
Ha, I have a feeling that what you consider tares is not relevant to the Church of Christ, there are no tares in the Church.

And your feeling is about as wrong as a feeling can get.
WOW! I hope you don't read things into the Bible like you read things into people's statements.

 

[azamzimtoti]

It's not rocket science azamzimtoti. The only reason people struggle to see the error of DC is because of their apriori bi


When is the wheat harvested in the parable. Several months later as is normal or thousands of years later?

Can you apply this to nature?

No. Therefore, DC and GB9's argument is invalid.

I think you are stretching the intent of the parable, the son of man reached maturity before sowing the seed.

The parables are not technical manuals for the kingdom .