Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

Hi Bud, If you cannot engage and respond, I am just speaking to a recorded message.......

It seems to be a trend here.....

 

[BillG]

People can end up in a universalist way of thinking like the film the Shack.
Responsibility for ones actions at all levels. Jesus brings us freedom to this degree.

Theologically, one could say all sin is forgiven, except not, if certain conditions are not met.
But that is just double speak. Only those who follow and believe Jesus are forgiven.

And the consequences of sin are what matters. It is why sin kills.
Go soft on evil, one has no faith. Sinful congregations become faithless congregations.

Never watched Shack.

Not sure I agree that people can end up a universalist.
I think they start as a universalist.

I don't think Paul was addressing that as he talks about abusing Gods grace as a licence to sin. So they were using Gods grace as a licence to sin.
And we know he said "Thats not right"

I'm not sure universalist give two hoots about grace so they can do what they want and still get to heaven.

All sin is forgiven except one, and that is unbelief in Jesus and not placing our faith in him and making him Lord of our lives.

All sin has consequences whether we are belivers or not.
Sin kills, what sin kills?
Even a harsh word to someone kills, even gossiping about someone kills.

Maybe you can expand for me what you mean by "Go soft on evil, one has no faith"

 

[GodsGrace101]

easy answer- lots of folks believe just like you. that we are in a joint effort with God to save us.

many believe that .

but, the narrow way is 100% trusting Christ for salvation. with you contributing nothing to your salvation.

not as many believe that.

not of yourself, a gift of God. could not be more clear.

I don't speak to those who tell me I'm going to hell.

Mathew 7:1-4

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What are you talking about? I responded to your statements.

Bud ignoring what I am saying, just continuing at being general when God calls us to be specific is not responding.

But my friend, you want this style of blank interaction, its fine using a recorded message, I just know what to
expect, I am called to rejoice in Him, which I do daily, Amen.

 

[Goodnewsman]

No. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make. That point was, a person who isn't saved can preach the gospel and folks can get saved. It's the message, not the messenger.

Like I pointed out with the demon possessed woman. Regarding salvation, what did she say that wasn't true?

Still didn't answer.....I understand that there is preachers preaching without God......that's not what I asked

Can a man be full of the Spirit of God, preaching the Gospel and not be a saved man????? 3rd time

 

[Budman]

He condemns everyone that does not agree with him.

Yes. To much judging going on around here by some who claim to know God and the bible He inspired.

And yet, you just judged him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Does God's love extend to liars? How about blasphemers? Thieves? Fornicators?

A single sin will send you to hell. Be it murder, or telling a lie.

Even one who hates. The Bible says it's the same as murder.

If God's love is extended to liars, it's extended to murderers as well.

I give up speaking to persons that do not understand the English language.

 

[Budman]

Bud ignoring what I am saying, just continuing at being general when God calls us to be specific is not responding.

I was being very specific when I quoted scripture to you. You just don't like it when you get taken to the woodshed.

 

[Budman]

I give up speaking to persons that do not understand the English language.

It's okay - you'll get the hang of it eventually.

 

[Budman]

Still didn't answer.....I understand that there is preachers preaching without God......that's not what I asked

Can a man be full of the Spirit of God, preaching the Gospel and not be a saved man????? 3rd time

Go back and look at my post.

See the first word?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Never watched Shack.

Not sure I agree that people can end up a universalist.
I think they start as a universalist.

I don't think Paul was addressing that as he talks about abusing Gods grace as a licence to sin. So they were using Gods grace as a licence to sin.
And we know he said "Thats not right"

I'm not sure universalist give two hoots about grace so they can do what they want and still get to heaven.

All sin is forgiven except one, and that is unbelief in Jesus and not placing our faith in him and making him Lord of our lives.

All sin has consequences whether we are belivers or not.
Sin kills, what sin kills?
Even a harsh word to someone kills, even gossiping about someone kills.

Maybe you can expand for me what you mean by "Go soft on evil, one has no faith"

Evil destroys our hearts, our care, our feelings and our empathy.
It shuts us down and cuts us off.

We need all these things to walk with the Lord, and so our faith dies as our heart is hardened.
Being in the vine is about dwelling in Christ, His word and responding to the issues around us
in His will, which takes a heart of flesh and love.

This is actually quite obvious, once you see someone come to life in Him and start to let His
love flow.

 

[Budman]

I don't speak to those who tell me I'm going to hell.

Mathew 7:1-4

Are you a Catholic?

 

[GodsGrace101]

But did not Jesus die for everyone?
Even those who do not place thier faith in him.

Are you talking about believers who commit murder? (Not that I have met any)

No.
I said NOT BELIEVERS.
He said God has agape love for EVERYONE on the earth.

My question was DOES GOD'S AGAPE LOVE EXTEND TO EVERYONE?
Here's my answer....

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY Psalms 5:5

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM.

Leviticus 26:14-30: If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... [send plagues, famine, drought, destructive armies, wild beasts who shall devour your children, pestilence, captivity in a cruel land...] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU.

Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Deuteronomy 25:16: ...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.

Deuteronomy 28:62-63: Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. (In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey Gods commandments.)

Deuteronomy 32:16-20: They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it [people sacrificing to devils - v.17], HE ABHORRED THEM...

Psalm 2:4-9: The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH [at rebellious men]: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... [and Christ shall] break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters vessel.

Psalm 5:5-6: The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.

Psalm 7:11-13: ...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.

Psalm 10:3: For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH.

Psalm 11:5-7: The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness...

Psalm 50:22: Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER.

Psalm 78:59: When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL.

Psalm 106:40: Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE.

Proverbs 3:32-33: For the froward is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD... The CURSE OF THE LORD is in the house of the wicked: but He blesseth the habitation of the just.

Proverbs 6:16-19: These six things doth THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are AN ABOMINATION TO HIM... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.

Proverbs 16:5: Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:5: He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION TO THE LORD.

Proverbs 22:14: The soul of strange women is a deep pit: HE THAT IS ABHORRED OF THE LORD shall fall therein.

Jeremiah 17:5: Thus saith the Lord, CURSED BE THE MAN that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Hosea 9:15: All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...

Malachi 1:3-4: And I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness...thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and the people AGAINST WHOM THE LORD HATH INDIGNATION FOREVER.

Romans 9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.

I Corinthians 16:22: If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].

James 4:4: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is ENMITY (or HATRED) WITH GOD? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an ENEMY OF GOD.

I Peter 3:12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers: but THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THEM THAT DO EVIL.

Revelation 14:10-11: [Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...

 

[stonesoffire]

John refers to our new identity in Christ, His Seed remains in us and He can not sin because He is born of God. Jesus obviously made it possible to abide with Him. Its not that I don't sin but that I die with Him daily. until it's no longer I that lives but Christ, And when you are free for a day, what makes the day trouble again is thinking that we have accomplished bearing the cross. Getting up in the morning is always today and never tomorrow until the Resurrection. We are near the end of the day where it sais the enemy will wear out the Saints, the sin could be thinking we have arrived before we have, no longer seeing the need to bear the cross sitting comfortably in our comfort zone. "They all slumbered and slept." The ones slumbering but still awake would be the wise.

I think Paul was saying to believe that we have died with Him because we have. Joy comes from being free. So what do we do to keep free? Ephesians 5 tells us.

We are complete in Him. But, how many of us know this? And how many declare this from the pulpit?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am still amazed at a believer who says to another, you do not know God at all.
You may as well light a bomb beneath their feet and destroy them.

I did ask earlier how he felt about me, and he took the long way around......

Sadly there is obviously little real spiritual connection or even an attempt at such.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails.
1 Cor 13:6-8

Well,,,,I believer we're here to proclaim the truth...
Not to make friends.
(although that is nice)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I was being very specific when I quoted scripture to you. You just don't like it when you get taken to the woodshed.

Bud, I am sure it all makes sense to you, except conviction of sin is the work of the Holy Spirit to help resolve
the issues, which you seem to be totally enslaved to by your own confession. So as you cannot be specific, you
are aware of sinning but not what or how to resolve it, which suggests to me the Holy Spirit is not at work, and
you have hardened your heart to Him.

When I am convicted of an issue, it totally dominates my life until it is resolved.
It seems funny in a way, but God does not let go of His people, praise the Lord.

 

[stonesoffire]

I think Paul was saying to believe that we have died with Him because we have. Joy comes from being free. So what do we do to keep free? Ephesians 5 tells us.

We are complete in Him. But, how many of us know this? And how many declare this from the pulpit?

I shall wear your red X as a badge of honor. lol

 

[Budman]

Bud, I am sure it all makes sense to you, except conviction of sin is the work of the Holy Spirit to help resolve
the issues, which you seem to be totally enslaved to by your own confession. So as you cannot be specific, you
are aware of sinning but not what or how to resolve it, which suggests to me the Holy Spirit is not at work, and
you have hardened your heart to Him.

I don't have to be specific about your sins. The Bible says if you say you are without sin, you are a liar. That pretty much covers it all. You may not like that - but it doesn't matter a whit.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Is that true concerning Judas?

John 6:66-71
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

It seems he said this a while before (not sure of the timeframe, but recall reading somewhere that it was probably about a year before Judas betrayed him) Judas betrayed him if we read the rest of John from C6 on.

I do have to say though that I can't say that he knew it was Judas who would betray him in C6.

V71 seems to speak after the event as clarification, even though we do not need it.
Because we all know it was him.

I have 3 different time frames for Jesus' ministry.
They aren't exactly the same...
Also, we have to remember that the gospels are not historical books.
Some of the events are compacted to get more information in.

Anything that is written about Judas has to be seen in the light of how Jesus saw him.
Jesus considered him just like the other 12 until the end. He might have discerned at some point that Judas was going to betray Him...but I don't see it in scripture...
Too much on this has to be understood through incomplete writings.

I don't care to argue it too much.
Someone here said some use this to prove OSAS is not true.
That's pretty funny.
The N.T. is full of verses about how OSAS cannot be true...no need for Judas.

 

[Hevosmies]

The N.T. is full of verses about how OSAS cannot be true...

Such as?