Rapture

[bluto]

What is so bad about saying that Matthew 24:29-31 correlates with:

Isaiah 27:12-13 -

12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

[and]

Isaiah 24:21-23 - [correlating with the timing of Rev19:19/16:14-16, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth]

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/punished.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


[note: this "gathering [verb]" in Isa27:12-13 is "ONE BY ONE" [AFTER the trib] (gathered by angels He SHALL SEND to do so, Matt24:29-31) rather than "AS ONE"-->the ONE BODY, the Church which is His body, caught up... to the meeting [noun] of the Lord "in the air"... and it is here "the LORD HIMSELF"]

And speaking of "correlation!" I don't know if you read in one of my very first post about what I said regarding 2 Thessalonians 1:6,7. "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and give "rest/relief" to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN (will we get rest or relief), when the LOrd Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire."

If you read the rest of the verses, especially vs10, "when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed." Now, correlate this with what Jesus said at Luke 21:25-35. Notice the context and especially vs28, "But when these things began to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

The question is "when is it drawing near?" Or when will we get "rest/relief" according to 2 Thessalonians 1:7. Now look what it says at Luke 21:35, "for it will come upon all those who DWELL ON THE FACE OF ALL THE EARTH." And notice vs36, "But keep on the alert at all times, praying, (why) in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

If were going to be raptured as you and others believe, why is it that we need to be praying for strength in order to be raptured? I guess now it's time for you to come up with another time frame excuse for the rapture.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Noose]

Some info on the mark of the beast.
Spoonjuly is right. The mark of the beast is not worldwide.

And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Don't let the word ALL mislead you. The word all here is word 'pas' which means individually. This passage doesn't imply the entire planet will receive a mark but only those under the authority of and within the kingdom of the false prophet.

The word all is probably the most misunderstood and mistranslated word in the bible. When the word all is used without the article as it is here, it means, "every kind or every variety." This indicates ALL within his kingdom, NOT the entire planet.

The forehead and the right hand have significance in Islam. They wear turbans. The harlot of Revelation 17 has Babylon the Great written on her forehead. Fanatical Muslim's like to show off their zebiba.

View attachment 186626

This is the zebiba or 'raisin.' It's a patch of hardened skin that forms on the forehead of fanatical Muslims from repeatedly hitting the mat. A Muslim's forehead hits the mat at least 35 times a day in submission to Allah resulting in over a million prostrations in a lifetime. It will not be worldwide but limited to Muslim dominated countries and possibly only within the ten nation Islamic Empire of the beast.

The Koran, which according to two Islamic scholars has 6, 666 verses in it, may be required to carry in your right hand when purchasing or selling.

The mark on the right hand or forehead is not a physical mark. The right hand has always meant righteousness or righteous deeds and the mark of antichrist on the right arm simply means self righteous/evil/wicked deeds whose origin are satanic.
Forehead means belief or faith and the antichrist mark on the forehead also means wickedness.

On the other hand, God also marks His people on the forehead and it means the opposite- righteousness coming from God, afterall, i have never seen people associate God's mark with a physical mark:

Rev 7: 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Buying and selling has nothing to do with the market either, its spiritual meaning is worship.

 

[Noose]

Well the Rapture definitely means flying off to Heaven, whether you believe it or not. Did Enoch and Elijah not fly off to Heaven? So why not all the saints of God at the Resurrection/Rapture?

Or are you afraid of this supernatural event which is incomprehensible to the human mind?

It is not incomprehensible to a human mind the reason is written down so that we may understand.
Enoch and Elijah did not go to heaven- John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven — the Son of Man.

Heaven is on earth:

Heb 12: 22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God,the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriadsof angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Paul doesn't mean some outer space above the clouds.

Rapture means escape here on earth and never flying off to outer space:

John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

 

[Noose]

Perhaps you are referring to a believing Jewish remnant (represented by the woman) which is preserved by God in the wilderness during the reign of the Antichrist (Rev 12:6, 14-16). Other than that group all those who refuse to take the Mark are beheaded (Rev 20:14).

There's no such thing as Jewish remnants, the definition of a Jew is:

Rom 2:28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Rev 2:
8And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things said the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9I know your works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but you are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days: be you faithful to death, and I will give you a crown of life. 11He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit said to the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death

Rev 3:
7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things said he that is holy, he that is true, he that has the key of David, he that opens, and no man shuts; and shuts, and no man opens;

8I know your works: behold, I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it: for you have a little strength, and have kept my word, and have not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

How God uses the word Jew in Revelation is consistent with the definition of a Jew in Romans 2, it has nothing to do with tribal Jews but faithful believers- they are the real Jews, the rest are a synagogue of satan.

 

[Noose]

TRIBULATION/THE GREAT TRIBULATION (GT).

One of the areas that is often misunderstood just like Christ's coming and rapture. Majority think that tribulation will be a very intense moment with regard to great suffering for some years (either 7 years or 3.5 years).

I'm sorry but we are already deep into the great tribulation and no one even realizes it- those that worship the antichrist continue doing so and those that know their God continue doing so. The worst thing about end times is dying while not knowing God, if anyone doesn't know God they belong to antichrist; this is what makes the end times and the GT dangerous.

But what really is the GT? It is death by: sword (wars), Pestilences (Diseases), Famine (Natural disasters), beasts of the earth (machinery & animals- basically accidents). These are the only known means of people dying whether believers or not. So no one claim a 3.5 years intense moment in the future, of course it will get worse as time goes but we are in it already.

The only people that will survive these are the 144000 faithful servants because they know God fully, rather God has given a heart to know Him just like Daniel and friends.
The details of GT are in Rev 6.
It starts with white horse rider going out on a conquest; this is satan going out to capture people with lies
After people are captured and their minds misdirected from God then satan goes out (second and third horses) to cause wars/famine/pestilences/accidents and eventually death (the fourth horse).

The capturing of people's mind through lies is what is called the abomination that causes desolate. Through the lies people worship satan as if he was God therefore he occupies the temple of God.

What is happening now is the same same same script with what happened to Daniel and friends. There are two groups of believers, those that are unfaithful and undergo tribulation and die so that their faith is refined and those that are faithful and will be protected and will not die. In fact, what happened to Daniel is a prophesy of what is happening to us:

Jer 24:
1After Jehoiachina son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the skilled workers and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Lordshowed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord. 2One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.
3Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”
“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”
4Then the word of the Lord came to me: 5“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.b 6My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.
8“ ‘But like the bad figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten,’ says the Lord, ‘so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or live in Egypt.9I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, a cursec and an object of ridicule, wherever I banish them. 10I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.’ ”

 

[Noose]

TRIBULATION/THE GREAT TRIBULATION (GT).

One of the areas that is often misunderstood just like Christ's coming and rapture. Majority think that tribulation will be a very intense moment with regard to great suffering for some years (either 7 years or 3.5 years).

I'm sorry but we are already deep into the great tribulation and no one even realizes it- those that worship the antichrist continue doing so and those that know their God continue doing so. The worst thing about end times is dying while not knowing God, if anyone doesn't know God they belong to antichrist; this is what makes the end times and the GT dangerous.

But what really is the GT? It is death by: sword (wars), Pestilences (Diseases), Famine (Natural disasters), beasts of the earth (machinery & animals- basically accidents). These are the only known means of people dying whether believers or not. So no one claim a 3.5 years intense moment in the future, of course it will get worse as time goes but we are in it already.

The only people that will survive these are the 144000 faithful servants because they know God fully, rather God has given a heart to know Him just like Daniel and friends.
The details of GT are in Rev 6.
It starts with white horse rider going out on a conquest; this is satan going out to capture people with lies
After people are captured and their minds misdirected from God then satan goes out (second and third horses) to cause wars/famine/pestilences/accidents and eventually death (the fourth horse).

The capturing of people's mind through lies is what is called the abomination that causes desolate. Through the lies people worship satan as if he was God therefore he occupies the temple of God.

What is happening now is the same same same script with what happened to Daniel and friends. There are two groups of believers, those that are unfaithful and undergo tribulation and die so that their faith is refined and those that are faithful and will be protected and will not die. In fact, what happened to Daniel is a prophesy of what is happening to us:

Jer 24:
1After Jehoiachina son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the skilled workers and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Lordshowed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord. 2One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.
3Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”
“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”
4Then the word of the Lord came to me: 5“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.b 6My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.
8“ ‘But like the bad figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten,’ says the Lord, ‘so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or live in Egypt.9I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, a cursec and an object of ridicule, wherever I banish them. 10I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.’ ”

Addition.

The idea that the great trib will be an intense moment contradicts the words of Jesus at the olivet discourse; Jesus said just like the days of Noah and the days of Lot, everything will be NORMAL, people will be marrying and being given to marriage, drinking and eating and partying.

Everything is normal now yet people are dying by diseases/wars/accidents/natural disasters so we only waiting for the end of this age, nothing more. Both believers and non believers are being harvested just as it is written in Revelation 14- the angel with sharp sickle harvests both grapes and tares.

 

[DudleyDorite]

Noose said,

Buying and selling has nothing to do with the market either, its spiritual meaning is worship.

Am I reading you right? Do you mean Stock Market? That may be true. But the mark does have all to do with buying and selling.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[DudleyDorite]

Addition.

The idea that the great trib will be an intense moment contradicts the words of Jesus at the olivet discourse; Jesus said just like the days of Noah and the days of Lot, everything will be NORMAL, people will be marrying and being given to marriage, drinking and eating and partying.

Everything is normal now yet people are dying by diseases/wars/accidents/natural disasters so we only waiting for the end of this age, nothing more. Both believers and non believers are being harvested just as it is written in Revelation 14- the angel with sharp sickle harvests both grapes and tares.

Revelation 14 is where the rapture takes place. It's during the last trump, the seventh trump.

 

[DudleyDorite]

The mark on the right hand or forehead is not a physical mark

Well it is a physical mark...

1. a stamp, an imprinted mark
   1. of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
   2. the mark branded upon horses
2. thing carved, sculpture, graven work.

Mark of the beast

 

[Ahwatukee]

The point I was makeing was right before the very begining or within the 3 1/2 years because 1 is pre, and the other is mid A week later would still be mid??

Not quite sure what you are saying above. However, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19, when John is told to write:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which prophetically represent the entire church period

What must take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period.

Currently, we are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the church has been completed, the "what is now" portion will be fulfilled and the "what must take place later" will ensue, which is synonymous with Rev.4:1-2 when John is caught up to heaven where he is told "I will show you what must take place after this." Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word "church" appear after this event. God doesn't do coincidences and so there is a reason for the disappearance of the word "church" from chapter 4 onward.

 

[DudleyDorite]

Not quite sure what you are saying above. However, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19, when John is told to write:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which prophetically represent the entire church period

What must take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period.

Currently, we are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the church has been completed, the "what is now" portion will be fulfilled and the "what must take place later" will ensue, which is synonymous with Rev.4:1-2 when John is caught up to heaven where he is told "I will show you what must take place after this." Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word "church" appear after this event. God doesn't do coincidences and so there is a reason for the disappearance of the word "church" from chapter 4 onward.

You are really bent on this misleading statement Thomas Ice has implanted in your head that the church isn't mentioned. Do you think servants, fellow servants, brethren, martyrs, etc. represent the church? The word church in chapters 3-4 represents the 7 churches in Asia. Your statement is way out of line!

 

[Noose]

Noose said,


Am I reading you right? Do you mean Stock Market? That may be true. But the mark does have all to do with buying and selling.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Buy and sell means worship. The antichrist does no other work apart from trying to prevent worship of God- those that receive his mark worship him, those that don't receive his mark know the true God and worship God alone, so he kills them.

When Jesus got them buying and selling in the temple, he said "..it is written my Father's house is a place of worship for all nations, not a den of robbers.."

 

[Noose]

Revelation 14 is where the rapture takes place. It's during the last trump, the seventh trump.

I don't see any rapture in Rev 14, all i see is the grapes being harvested by the means of a SHARP SICKLE which means tribulation.

 

[Noose]

Well it is a physical mark...

1. a stamp, an imprinted mark
   1. of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
   2. the mark branded upon horses
2. thing carved, sculpture, graven work.

Mark of the beast

God also marks his servants on the forehead (Rev 7:3), how does that work out?

 

[garee]

666 is the number of the beast who is the antichrist, and you are also told to calculate the number of the beast. So it is not just a number, it is a calculation.

Yes 666 calculated is 2/3 used as a dividing line in the scriptures.



It is the number of unregenerarted man as a beast of the field. The mark of Cain a restless wanderer, receiving no Sabbath rest.

 

[DudleyDorite]

Buy and sell means worship. The antichrist does no other work apart from trying to prevent worship of God- those that receive his mark worship him, those that don't receive his mark know the true God and worship God alone, so he kills them.

When Jesus got them buying and selling in the temple, he said "..it is written my Father's house is a place of worship for all nations, not a den of robbers.."

To buy means to...
to be in the market place, to attend it
to do business there, buy or sell

To sell means to...
to barter, to sell
sellers

This is literal buying and selling and nothing else.

The mark isn't imposed by the anti-Christ. It's imposed by the two horned beast which represents the false prophet who is Islamic. The two horns are the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, also AKA the iron and clay.

 

[garee]

Buy and sell means worship. The antichrist does no other work apart from trying to prevent worship of God- those that receive his mark worship him, those that don't receive his mark know the true God and worship God alone, so he kills them.

When Jesus got them buying and selling in the temple, he said "..it is written my Father's house is a place of worship for all nations, not a den of robbers.."

The mark is not a literal mark and the buying and selling has to to with spiritual truth ,hid in parables

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

We are not to sell spiritual truth as did Esua who became a resteless wanderer not entering the sabbath rest in respect to the work of God. He had the mark of Cain (666)

We walk by faith, not after the things seen, as those who walk by sight.Those who require a outward sign before they will beleive make the faith of Christ without effect.

 

[garee]

Not quite sure what you are saying above. However, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19, when John is told to write:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which prophetically represent the entire church period

What must take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period.

Currently, we are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the church has been completed, the "what is now" portion will be fulfilled and the "what must take place later" will ensue, which is synonymous with Rev.4:1-2 when John is caught up to heaven where he is told "I will show you what must take place after this." Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word "church" appear after this event. God doesn't do coincidences and so there is a reason for the disappearance of the word "church" from chapter 4 onward.

 

[Noose]

Yes 666 calculated is 2/3 used as a dividing line in the scriptures.



It is the number of unregenerarted man as a beast of the field. The mark of Cain a restless wanderer, receiving no Sabbath rest.

I still don't get it, i don't think i will.

 

[Noose]

To buy means to...
to be in the market place, to attend it
to do business there, buy or sell

To sell means to...
to barter, to sell
sellers

This is literal buying and selling and nothing else.

The mark isn't imposed by the anti-Christ. It's imposed by the two horned beast which represents the false prophet who is Islamic. The two horns are the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, also AKA the iron and clay.

God is never in the business of buying and selling merchandise, He is after your heart, not money.