The cultic origins of Annihilationism
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Once they've died the second death, they won't know anything at all. They will be dead.
I know what eisegesis is, thanks.
I am not practicing it.
you have and issue with "eisegesis "
Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsəˈdʒiːsəs/
is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.
and allegorizing of the verses .
Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsəˈdʒiːsəs/
is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.and allegorizing of the verses .
I am not practicing it.
Yes, I'm familiar with the Talmud.
The Tanach itself and the Prophet book of Daniel 12:2 lead some to believe there is a form of a punishing afterlife mentioned there. Orthodox Jewish Bible Version2. And rabbim of them that sleep in the admat aphar (dust of the ground) shall awake, some to Chayyei Olam (Everlasting Life), and some to reproaches (shames) and Dera’on Olam (Everlasting Contempt, Abhorrence, Aversion, i.e., Everlasting Gehinnom.[T.N. Onesh Olam is here made more fearsome in light of the prevalent neglect of Scripture in favor of non-Biblical studies]).
Also , what are your thoughts concerning the teachings as relate to Olam Ha-Ba ?
The Tanach itself and the Prophet book of Daniel 12:2 lead some to believe there is a form of a punishing afterlife mentioned there. Orthodox Jewish Bible Version2. And rabbim of them that sleep in the admat aphar (dust of the ground) shall awake, some to Chayyei Olam (Everlasting Life), and some to reproaches (shames) and Dera’on Olam (Everlasting Contempt, Abhorrence, Aversion, i.e., Everlasting Gehinnom.[T.N. Onesh Olam is here made more fearsome in light of the prevalent neglect of Scripture in favor of non-Biblical studies]).
Also , what are your thoughts concerning the teachings as relate to Olam Ha-Ba ?
no that is bible 101 he is correct annihilationism is false it is
Universalism/Annihilationism
people like John Stott. Although the theory of annihilationism had been around since at least the Middle Ages, Stott brought it to the forefront again in the late 20th Century. Stott may not have been completely convinced of the idea himself, but offered it as a possible alternative to the commonly accepted concept of a literal, eternal hell for the damned.
John Stott and Annihilationism – The Problem
The problem with John Stott’s argument is that what we deem to be fair or unfair is seen through our imperfect—and sinful—human eyes as reasoned through our imperfect—and sinful—thoughts.
It is impossible for us to rationalize this issue with our limited means the same way that a Holy and Righteous God views it. this is the issue with those who think annihilationism is biblical they use human reasoning and allegorize the word of God to explain their error position.
This is why so many times people believe they can go to heaven because they think they are “good enough” or as “good as the next person. The truth is that a perfect God will not allow imperfection into His heaven. In fact, He cannot allow imperfection into his heaven. That is why we must be made righteous through the blood of Jesus Christ before we, as believers, can stand in the presence of the Almighty God.
Bible word of God not human reasoning .
Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 that God “…will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” Finally, Jesus himself said, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46).
Universalism/Annihilationism
people like John Stott. Although the theory of annihilationism had been around since at least the Middle Ages, Stott brought it to the forefront again in the late 20th Century. Stott may not have been completely convinced of the idea himself, but offered it as a possible alternative to the commonly accepted concept of a literal, eternal hell for the damned.
John Stott and Annihilationism – The Problem
The problem with John Stott’s argument is that what we deem to be fair or unfair is seen through our imperfect—and sinful—human eyes as reasoned through our imperfect—and sinful—thoughts.
It is impossible for us to rationalize this issue with our limited means the same way that a Holy and Righteous God views it. this is the issue with those who think annihilationism is biblical they use human reasoning and allegorize the word of God to explain their error position.
This is why so many times people believe they can go to heaven because they think they are “good enough” or as “good as the next person. The truth is that a perfect God will not allow imperfection into His heaven. In fact, He cannot allow imperfection into his heaven. That is why we must be made righteous through the blood of Jesus Christ before we, as believers, can stand in the presence of the Almighty God.
Bible word of God not human reasoning .
Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 that God “…will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” Finally, Jesus himself said, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46).
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Good day PennEd,
I agree with what you wrote above in that, those who are being taught should have the same attitude of the Bereans checking the scriptures to see if what the person told them is scripturally correct. I think this is a big problem today in that, many just listen to what they are being told but they have no personal study.
Regarding "outer darkness" my take on this is that, we know fire as something that is hot and that produces light. But God controls atoms and molecules and therefore, the lake of fire could burn hot and completely black for all we know. The fire there doesn't have to produce light if God doesn't want it to.
Regarding speaking with an unsaved person, though I would agree that I would not start a conversation about hell, it would be included as the conversation progressed. When we say "saved" it immediately begs the question "saved from what?" one on this site awhile back stated that we should not lure people to Christ with the promise of heaven, nor with the threat of hell. My response was "what if they say 'no thank you, I'm not interested.' " They need to know what their current state is without Christ and what the end result will be. I believe that both the good news of salvation and the current state of the unbeliever and the consequences should be presented.
I agree with what you wrote above in that, those who are being taught should have the same attitude of the Bereans checking the scriptures to see if what the person told them is scripturally correct. I think this is a big problem today in that, many just listen to what they are being told but they have no personal study.
Regarding "outer darkness" my take on this is that, we know fire as something that is hot and that produces light. But God controls atoms and molecules and therefore, the lake of fire could burn hot and completely black for all we know. The fire there doesn't have to produce light if God doesn't want it to.
Regarding speaking with an unsaved person, though I would agree that I would not start a conversation about hell, it would be included as the conversation progressed. When we say "saved" it immediately begs the question "saved from what?" one on this site awhile back stated that we should not lure people to Christ with the promise of heaven, nor with the threat of hell. My response was "what if they say 'no thank you, I'm not interested.' " They need to know what their current state is without Christ and what the end result will be. I believe that both the good news of salvation and the current state of the unbeliever and the consequences should be presented.
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That's rather meaningless. Anyone can find an article on the internet to support their belief.... The question is: what does the Bible teach?
Also, I am not a universalist.
The "everlasting destruction" is the second death. It will be permanent.
The punishMENT will be permanent. The punishING will not.
Also, I am not a universalist.
The "everlasting destruction" is the second death. It will be permanent.
The punishMENT will be permanent. The punishING will not.
It may be meaningless to you however, historical context is there, only with revisionist have issue with it. Biblical tenet Christianity has long taught and correctly the eternal state of hell and of those who go there.
and right back at you, as you said anyone can find article on the internet. And as you have done make statements which are not supported biblically . Like this comment"
"The punishMENT will be permanent. The punishING will not".
that is also not what the bible teaches.
and right back at you, as you said anyone can find article on the internet. And as you have done make statements which are not supported biblically . Like this comment"
"The punishMENT will be permanent. The punishING will not".
that is also not what the bible teaches.
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That statement above makes no sense whatsoever! The word "punishment" infers that the one being punished must exist in order to experience said punishment. It carries the idea of punishment as being on-going. You can't punish someone who doesn't exist.
It's amazing the things that people concoct in order to support their false belief.
By the way CS1, who is it that you are conversing with, if you don't mind me asking?
It's amazing the things that people concoct in order to support their false belief.
By the way CS1, who is it that you are conversing with, if you don't mind me asking?
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I would suggest that "outer darkness" means that the Lake of Fire has been located outside space (which is finite) and which will be cleansed when the New Heavens (plural) and the New Earth are established.
Since "heavens" is plural, and since God's Heaven needs no cleansing, the Bible is speaking about our atmospheric heaven as well as outer space.
As we know space has been thoroughly polluted, therefore it must be cleansed. But since the Lake of Fire is reserved for the wicked, they cannot remain in the New Heavens and the New Earth. Therefore they are consigned to outer darkness -- a place of torment.
Since "heavens" is plural, and since God's Heaven needs no cleansing, the Bible is speaking about our atmospheric heaven as well as outer space.
As we know space has been thoroughly polluted, therefore it must be cleansed. But since the Lake of Fire is reserved for the wicked, they cannot remain in the New Heavens and the New Earth. Therefore they are consigned to outer darkness -- a place of torment.
Yeah...Strongs has its limitations. It's a great tool most of the time, but even Strong himself has said that it is not sufficient for a word study, (and especially not in greek.) There's just too many problems using a root concordance - no case forms, no breakdown of verbs into their delineation and whatnot.
Yes, but since the "outer darkness" is directed at those as being part of the punishment, then I would think that it would be literal darkness. If it was just referring to outer space, it would not be dark and the fire created from the lake of fire would not be dark either if it was creating actual light as we know fire does. That's why I suggested that the fire in the lake of fire may burn dark and not create light so that those suffering outer darkness would actually be in darkness. Consider the following:
"These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them." 2 Pet.2:17
Outer darkness is not just a location, but apart of the punishment.
"These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them." 2 Pet.2:17
Outer darkness is not just a location, but apart of the punishment.
And you think THIS statement makes any more sense??
If a man is sentenced to death by a judge, he exists while the punishment is pronounced, then he does not exist after the punishment is executed. Now, after he is executed, would you say he received no punishment because he doesn't exist any more...???
If a man is sentenced to death by a judge, he exists while the punishment is pronounced, then he does not exist after the punishment is executed. Now, after he is executed, would you say he received no punishment because he doesn't exist any more...???
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