Not By Works

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Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do.

When we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.

Charity is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said if a person does not have charity,love in action,works,then they are nothing,and they have erred from the faith,which he says the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy,James said if they do not have charity,love in action,works,then their faith is dead,which he points out if they have the means to feed and clothe the poor and they do not do it they do not have faith,and John said if they do not have charity,love in action,works,the love of God does not dwell in them,and points out if they see a person have need,and does not help them they are not right with God,and says love not in word only,but in deed and in truth.

Paul says charity does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in iniquity,but rejoices in the truth,abstains from sin by the Spirit,and is not unkind,not selfish,not arrogant,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy with their needs.

That is why the Bible warns against not having love,for some people err concerning that,which we see in society the lack of love,and love is greater than faith,and faith means nothing without love,for true faith has the proper perspective of God and His Kingdom.

The Bible says God wants all people to be saved,and many are called but few are chosen,so they should understand the scriptures.

Sin separates people from God,and we can have the Spirit to help us to not sin,for a person that hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,so there is no excuse,and if they sin it is because they want to sin,because they could choose the good and not the evil.

When a husband and wife are married,and the husband cheats on the wife,he broke the covenant that is between them,and they can divorce,and no longer a part of each other's life.

If a person that confesses Christ does not have love,and holding unto sin,they have broken the covenant with God,and no longer part of the family until they stop holding unto sin,and be led of the Spirit.

That is why the Bible tells the saints not to be highminded,but fear,for if God did not spare those in the Old Testament,then take heed lest He also not spare you,for if you do not continue in the goodness of God you will also be cut off.

And do not depart from the living God,by the deceitfulness of sins.

That is why Paul wrote the Lord knows them that are His having this seal,that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,but not all have the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.

But when you are dealing with people that like to hear it according to the flesh they do not want to hear,hence the long dragged out not saved by works thread.

Which the Bible says they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,and points out their sins,that they think they are right with God despite holding unto sins.

And it would appear that people that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,would fall under that category,which you can see it in society,especially going by their wants,according to their lusts,and fleshy pleasures.
 
Endoscopy said:
Then explain James 2:14 to 26 to me.

James 2

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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Do you quote more from James than Paul?
 
7777pinacled said:
Titus 3 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

3 Remind people to submit to the government and its officials, to obey them, to be ready to do any honorable kind of work, 2 to slander no one, to avoid quarrelling, to be friendly, and to behave gently towards everyone.
3 For at one time, we too were foolish and disobedient, deceived and enslaved by a variety of passions and pleasures. We spent our lives in evil and envy; people hated us, and we hated each other. 4 But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Deliverer was revealed, 5 he delivered us. It was not on the ground of any righteous deeds we had done, but on the ground of his own mercy. He did it by means of the mikveh of rebirth and the renewal brought about by the Ruach HaKodesh, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Yeshua the Messiah, our Deliverer. 7 He did it so that by his grace we might come to be considered righteous by God and become heirs, with the certain hope of eternal life. 8 You can trust what I have just said, and I want you to speak with confidence about these things, so that those who have put their trust in God may apply themselves to doing good deeds. These are both good in themselves and valuable to the community.
9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, quarrels and fights about the Torah; because they are worthless and futile.

10 Warn a divisive person once, then a second time; and after that, have nothing more to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a person has been perverted and is sinning: he stands self-condemned.
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Most here are in agreement with Dcon, Pin. So those divisive would be the opposers. And it's his thread.
 
joefizz said:
Cats are not food for people!
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There is the concept of a cat and rat farm.
Cats are skinned and the carcass is fed to the rats.
Cat skins are sold for fur.
Rats are fed to the cats.
This will go on forever.
We can get rich doing this.

ROFL
 
dcontroversal said:
salvation is the root...and if it is wrong the whole tree is corrupt....weigh that for a moment.....
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Exactly. That's what I've been saying.

Corrupt trees are not saved trees. If they were, they wouldn't be corrupt.

Fruitless people don't get to go into the kingdom because they are not saved, their corruption testifying to the fact they are not saved.

The new grace doctrine in the church says they are saved, just as long as they believed some time in the past.
 
dcontroversal said:
go study the word hypocrite from the two Greek words that make up the word and come to a good understanding on what the word really means....and then APPLY it properly.....
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https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5273&t=KJV

What are the two Greek words that make up the word hypocrite?

What is the correct understanding and application of the word that somehow makes it so fake, phony, and false 'actors' won't be destroyed when Jesus comes back?

The new grace doctrine in the church says they will be saved (just as long as they believed some time in the past). Jesus said they will go to the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. Who should we believe?
 
7777pinacled said:
Are you referring to the talents.?

Matthew 25:14-30 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Parable of the Talents

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants[a]and entrusted to them his property.
15 To one he gave five talents,[b] to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away.

16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
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While this passage does show the necessity to bring increase to the word of God that you have received or else be condemned at the return of Christ, I was referring to Matthew 24:45-51.
 
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The new grace doctrine says the person who says they are a Christian but who does not live for Christ (a hypocrite) is still saved despite his ungodly, even now unbelieving life.

But this is what Christ says...

"suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."-Matthew 24:48-51


Works do matter. The person who says they are a Christian but who does not live a new life will not be saved when Jesus comes back.

Works not only show that we believe and are saved, but that we are continuing to believe. If we don't endure to the end we will not be saved in the end. The new grace doctrine says that doesn't matter because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you can not lose your salvation. In that doctrine, not even hypocrisy can keep you out of the kingdom, even though Christ said it will.

Works do matter. They don't get you saved, but they do show you to be saved. Just as not having works shows you to not be saved.
 
NoNameMcgee said:
so far 4 people i personally i know of left the false doctrine of sinless perfection and works to be justified because of being biblically proven wrong here


leading them to prayer
and study
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Works salvation and sinless perfection are surely false doctrines. But so is saying works don't matter to salvation because salvation is not by works, and because you can't lose your salvation. We need to lead them to the truth, not to another error.

Note, I'm not challenging your once saved always saved belief itself. I'm challenging the teaching that says you don't have to do works because you can't lose salvation.
 
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