For the People Who Champion Lifetime Singleness - What's Your Advice for Dealing with Single Sexuality?

seoulsearch · May 31, 2021

I understand what you're saying, Ben. I'm sure that to God, there is certainly no subjectivity to being a Christian, and He would say you either follow Him or you don't as well.

But I have to politely disagree with the statement, "You either are or you aren't (a Christian)" when it comes to what people define in each other as being Christian or not. And the thing is, most people won't leave it at that -- they believe it's their Christian duty to change the other person into what they personally follow and believe, or that person's faith doesn't actually count.

Now, I agree with you that the basic foundation, and the one that DOES count, is believing in God as the ultimate being of the universe whom we must all subject ourselves to, and because we were all sinful from birth, we all need to have faith in Jesus whom God sent as the Savior of our sins, who died to take the punishment of sin for us.

HOWEVER, for most Christians, that's just not good enough (and it's been that way from the very beginning, as laws were piled on top of laws.) Take a look at this very forum -- look at all the ways people here define each other as being a "Christian" or not (I'm not taking any sides here, I'm just presenting some of the subjects I see argued over daily, both here on the forum and in real life.)

These are just a few things that will easily get a person thrown into the "not a Christian" pile:

1. If you smoke, drink, do drugs, have tattoos, unnatural hair colors, piercings or ones considered unusual -- you're not a Christian.

2. If you're Republican or Democrat; if you vote or don't vote; if you support government or anarchy -- whichever side you take, you're not a Christian. If you're not prepping, you're not a Christian. If you ARE prepping, then you don't really believe that God will protect you -- and therefore, you're not a Christian.

3. If you wear a mask or don't wear a mask; if you get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine; if you choose to social distance or go to packed indoor gatherings anyway -- there are mobs of angry people on both sides of either issue, each one accusing the other of not being Christians. Look at all the people here who will tell us if we wear a mask, we don't really trust Jesus; and on the other hand, another group of people will tell us that if we don't wear a mask, then we don't really love Jesus because we're not loving our neighbors. Again, I'm not judging or taking sides. I'm just saying, Christians only say you're a Christian if you're following what they personally feel is being a Christian.

4. If you were baptized one way and not the other -- you're not a Christian. If you don't believe in taking communion the same way we do or believe the same things about it as what is taught in this particular church -- you're not a Christian and are not allowed to partake of it here. If you speak in tongues, it's from the devil; if you don't speak in tongues, you're not a real Christian.

5. If you have a certain amount of money (or not,) you're not a Christian, because having money means you'll turn into one of the camels who can't get through the eye of a needle; if you have a lack, it must be because you're lazy or just don't have enough faith that God will provide.

And of course, the list goes on indefinitely

Now, God certainly has His own standards as to who and what His people really are.

The problem is, we human beings then go on to decide that's just not good enough and so along with believing in Jesus as your Savior, you have to jump through everyone else's individual hoops in order to get their stamp of approval as being a Christian.

It shouldn't matter all that much to us -- only what God says to us or how He defines us should matter -- but unfortunately, we do have to face and sometimes even pander to this to some extent. We could just close ourselves off from everyone, which I know some do, but unfortunately, we don't learn very much about other people or how to help them if we don't actually have regular contact with people. (Believe me, if there was a way to do it, I'd be one of the first to sign up.)

BenFTW · May 31, 2021

seoulsearch said:

I understand what you're saying, Ben. I'm sure that to God, there is certainly no subjectivity to being a Christian, and He would say you either follow Him or you don't as well.

But I have to politely disagree with the statement, "You either are or you aren't (a Christian)" when it comes to what people define in each other as being Christian or not. And the thing is, most people won't leave it at that -- they believe it's their Christian duty to change the other person into what they personally follow and believe, or that person's faith doesn't actually count.

Now, I agree with you that the basic foundation, and the one that DOES count, is believing in God as the ultimate being of the universe whom we must all subject ourselves to, and because we were all sinful from birth, we all need to have faith in Jesus whom God sent as the Savior of our sins, who died to take the punishment of sin for us.

HOWEVER, for most Christians, that's just not good enough (and it's been that way from the very beginning, as laws were piled on top of laws.) Take a look at this very forum -- look at all the ways people here define each other as being a "Christian" or not (I'm not taking any sides here, I'm just presenting some of the subjects I see argued over daily, both here on the forum and in real life.)

These are just a few things that will easily get a person thrown into the "not a Christian" pile:

1. If you smoke, drink, do drugs, have tattoos, unnatural hair colors, piercings or ones considered unusual -- you're not a Christian.

2. If you're Republican or Democrat; if you vote or don't vote; if you support government or anarchy -- whichever side you take, you're not a Christian. If you're not prepping, you're not a Christian. If you ARE prepping, then you don't really believe that God will protect you -- and therefore, you're not a Christian.

3. If you wear a mask or don't wear a mask; if you get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine; if you choose to social distance or go to packed indoor gatherings anyway -- there are mobs of angry people on both sides of either issue, each one accusing the other of not being Christians. Look at all the people here who will tell us if we wear a mask, we don't really trust Jesus; and on the other hand, another group of people will tell us that if we don't wear a mask, then we don't really love Jesus because we're not loving our neighbors. Again, I'm not judging or taking sides. I'm just saying, Christians only say you're a Christian if you're following what they personally feel is being a Christian.

4. If you were baptized one way and not the other -- you're not a Christian. If you don't believe in taking communion the same way we do or believe the same things about it as what is taught in this particular church -- you're not a Christian and are not allowed to partake of it here. If you speak in tongues, it's from the devil; if you don't speak in tongues, you're not a real Christian.

5. If you have a certain amount of money (or not,) you're not a Christian, because having money means you'll turn into one of the camels who can't get through the eye of a needle; if you have a lack, it must be because you're lazy or just don't have enough faith that God will provide.

And of course, the list goes on indefinitely

Now, God certainly has His own standards as to who and what His people really are.

The problem is, we human beings then go on to decide that's just not good enough and so along with believing in Jesus as your Savior, you have to jump through everyone else's individual hoops in order to get their stamp of approval as being a Christian.

It shouldn't matter all that much to us -- only what God says to us or how He defines us should matter -- but unfortunately, we do have to face and sometimes even pander to this to some extent. We could just close ourselves off from everyone, which I know some do, but unfortunately, we don't learn very much about other people or how to help them if we don't actually have regular contact with people. (Believe me, if there was a way to do it, I'd be one of the first to sign up.)

There are surely judgmental Christians and I too have pondered, ‘cause of certain beliefs (say they are a professing Christian who is a liberal Democrat) if someone is a genuine believer. How can they reconcile the two world views? They seem diametrically opposed to one another.

But yeah, I think you agree more than you disagree with me here. A Christian, a true one, is painted clearly in the Bible. Our judgments however can be very subjective.

seoulsearch · May 31, 2021

BenFTW said:

Please bear with me as I give just one more very personal example.

I'm very open about struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts throughout my life because I know I'm not the only one who has them, and I want others to know they are not alone, and that God loves them despite their struggle. Depression to that point will most definitely get you aggressively flagged as "not being a Christian," as one woman blatantly told me, saying that I couldn't possibly be a Christian if I was having those thoughts.

Another told me I just needed to stop all medical treatment and just "trust Jesus for healing."

Now I understand that this has worked for some people. But at the time, it did not work for me.

I generally find that the people who seem most adamant about deeming me a non-Christian are Christians who:

1. Don't struggle with the same things, so they have no understanding of what it's like and think it's a switch you can just turn on and off; or,

2. They're very familiar with the things I've gone through, but because they've found their own way to cope that's different from what I do or they've found healing, they assume there's something spiritually wrong with me because I'm following the same path.

I know most Christians have their own opinions when they hear the names Rick Warren and Toby Mac (both very well-known in the Christian "celebrity" scene.) I haven't researched this very much (as I'm actually afraid of the answers I'll find,) but both of these Christian-identifying men have had sons who committed suicide.

From the little I did read, I believe both of their families believe their sons went to heaven.

In my childhood church, we were taught that suicide is an instant ticket to hell because you are unable to ask for forgiveness, unless you somehow survive long enough to repent, or else God makes some other very rare sovereign decision.

The reason I am afraid to read what other prominent Christians say about their own family members committing suicide is because:

1. If they say they believe their loved one went to hell because of killing him or herself, this will, of course, reinforce all my childhood fears (and perhaps rightly so, as it's helped keep me in line all these years.)

2. If they say they believe their loved one went to heaven anyway, it's very scary to tell people (at least, in my opinion,) that it doesn't matter if you commit suicide -- you can still go to heaven -- because it will encourage some people to contemplate it even more, believing they now have nothing to lose.

And the whole reason I'm mentioning this is because the very fact that I think and wonder and talk to people about these issues often gets me branded as a non-Christian, or at the very least, one that surely doesn't truly believe or have "real" faith in God.

For me, it's not a matter of, "You either are a Christian, or you aren't," because apparently, in many of the circles I have come across in the past, I am not even A Christian to them, let alone, a "real" one.

seoulsearch · May 31, 2021

BenFTW said:

I agree with you that with God, you either are His follower or not.

Unfortunately, however, as long as we are living our mortal lives here on earth, it's the people who identify as being followers of God who will most openly and vocally determine who is deemed "Christian" or not, and that won't change until Jesus finally comes back and sets all of us straight.

I also want to say, Ben, that I am grateful to you for the discussion today.

Thank you for being willing to hear me out -- I do greatly appreciate it, as well as your thought-provoking insights.

Lanolin · May 31, 2021

hmm Ive never kind of been someone to seek approval from others but closing oneself off isnt my style either. Otherwise why would I even be on CHRISTIAN forums lol.

I go visit different churches from time to time. All the Bibles in schools teachers came from different churches and was non denominational, nobody thought they were more christian or less christian than the other. we all had the Bible in common and yes some had read a bit more than others. But its not like it was a totally different book. And you wouldnt ever get a non-christian as a teacher...well that has never happened! You cant teach the Bible if you dont even believe in it.

So I dont really get that attitude. Some peoples beliefs I dont really understand (maybe the more way out fundamentalists) but I dont feel like I am condemned by their judgements and I dont try and judge them. If someone has a conviction that I dont have, I dont necessarily try to automatically have that conviction as well, but it might be something I ask God about.

He might say well thats Peter (or John or whoever...., follow thou me) in other words, dont worry what others think or are doing you just keep on following me.

Lanolin · May 31, 2021

on suicide, well satan can attack anyone and obviously targets christians as well so its not unknown that christians can be suicidal.

Lanolin · May 31, 2021

I had one man who I worked with for a time he had a temp job in the library, apparently was a prison minister at one point and had been a missionary etc. I found out that he commited suicide, after suffering mental illness. It was very sad, I dont know this side of heaven where he end up its not for me to say but obviously I hope that his faith did not fail. Or maybe its everyone else that is failing as suicide rate is very high in nz. it affects everyone.

BenFTW · May 31, 2021

seoulsearch said:

I would say, having dealt with and dealing with the two (anger and depression) that obviously they are not of God. They do not come from God and God would have us above them. He would not forsake us for them, but instead we should understand why we feel as we do.

For example, is our anger justified? Am I right to be angry and is the person I am angry at guilty? For depression, do I have a reason to be sad? Do I have a reason to be hopeless? In truth.... if I have God I have no reason to be hopeless and therefore while my depression may be reasonably reached, it is unreasonably accepted. I cannot neglect to consider that God has created me with purpose and while I may yet feel incapable, my ineptitude is temporary. Why? Because I was created with purpose.

That is unfortunate that you have been labeled as not being a Christian due to the struggles you face and the questions you ask. It sounds to me as if those people lacked compassion, first off, and secondly understanding. They were wrong Seoulsearch to dismiss your walk in respect to your struggle. They instead should’ve encouraged you.

Thank you as well for the conversation.

cinder · May 31, 2021

BenFTW said:

If our emotions always responded to reason, then no one should need more than one session of counseling; they could just take notes during the session and reread them as necessary. I'm not saying that understanding why we feel the way we do isn't valuable, but it isn't a sure cure for living with the emotional fallout.

I'm going to use Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane as the ultimate case in point here. There's no way he didn't understand what was going on and why he had to die and what it was all about. But despite all that knowledge, God still had to send an angel to strengthen him (Luke 22:43). Sometimes (actually just right now the thought occured to me and it's a good one) I think Jesus showed as much the limitations of our humanity as the power of God. And it's really striking that when God became man, he didn't walk around the earth like some all powerful deity but rather suffered the limits of human exhaustion, fear, hunger, etc. Sometimes I think we in our human frailties expect to be stronger and less temptable than Jesus and berate ourselves (or sometimes our more "spiritual" Christian friends will do it for us) for not being at the height of spiritual power and strength at all times, even though it seems even Jesus living his human life couldn't do that.

Lanolin · Jun 2, 2021

I think the example of Jesus in knowing what he was called to do, knowing that he had a mission to complete, helped him deal with whatever was stopping him from doing what he was called to do. and he probably had to deal with horny disciples as well. Both men and women.

In the Bible, it does say that some are called to be married and some are called to be single.
If you are ever confused about that ask God about it.

Then for those of us called to be single, yes, we may have to deal with temptation. and its the same as if we were married and dealing with the temptation to go with someone else.

You may not even know it, or be aware of it but we DO have angels protecting us. And for those of us who are single, often its to STOP someone from trying to seduce us, stalk us, or otherwise get us distracted (porn etc)

Because when we pray 'lead us from temptation, deliver us from evil' God actually does act on this prayer. In my experience, I can think of many instances where God led me out of sticky situations and kept me away from them. I recall that one time I was watching something on tv, I think it was a david copperfield magic show or something that I wouldnt have expected anything sexual from it. Then for some strange reason there was an image on it that was quite seductive and I found myself disturbed by it, and I was like what is this God. It felt demonic. I prayed deliver me and then that feeling left. actually the wird thing was my cat sat on my lap and the weird sensation disappeared. I do think some spirits can go into or be absorbed by other bodies. I cant really explain it.

The same with boy next door. He was a lot younger than me but it seems like he had a crush and kept wanting me to hold hands with him and then asking for my number. I was like no. But then I had a dream one night that he was trying to get me in bed and I just rebuked the spirit that was trying to seduce me.
It left and I had no distrubances since and he stopped trying to bother me.

old memories of exes or fantasies about them (yes there are such things as 'spirit husbands' can be removed and ties cut through deliverance. )

I once worked in a company where one of my supervisors hit on all the women, even boasting of aleeping with one of them, and with anyone who was female would get the full extent of his er, amour as if He was Gods gift. Well be that time I knew the what for and could look after myself without having to fake being married or whatever. But I still needed prayer to bind demons because of his oversexed behaviour.

I mean its ok to be kissed as a FRIEND but if it turns out anything more you got to be on your guard.
when I was younger it was tougher to stay single (you get many offers all highly crazy and absurd) but I think maybe time is on your side as you get older.
Though I wouldnt put past the randy older guys because one girl got harassed at the retirement village by one of the residents. Theres like a 50 year age difference but he didnt care. He still thought she was meat.

I dont think you have to go to the extreme that you need to dress like you are wearing a sack or anything, either.
I can work with male colleagues and be alone in the same room with them and have my mind totally focussed on work without being distracted or worried that hes going to come on to me or that I would have 'feelings or desires' other than what God wants me to have. I think every single called by God ought to have this freedom.

MatthewWestfieldUK · Jun 2, 2021

I found that working environments are the toughest places to keep clear of sin. The daily time together and proximity is not easy. Same as volunteering in a church charity on weekends.
There's little accountability support in such cases.

Lanolin · Jun 2, 2021

The funny thing is, the more segregated in to women and men you get, then this whole other thing you get is same sex situations, and this can even happen in church! Like it then started bothering me a little that some women were like you can move in with me and sleepover. Im like yea I can be a friend but I am not like your partner in crime and substitute husband!
Thankfully it never got that far but I can honestly say some friendships were becoming way to clingy for me and not healthy. You have to watch out for that too. it can be emotionally draining, and I think with female friendships it can be even more because of so many expectations like some would be oh no if you dont call me or txt me every day or right away you dont like me anymore kind of thing.

Ruby123 · Jun 12, 2021

What a great love story this is. It is great to see this girls life turn around.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rvivor-Sophie-Delezio-met-Joseph-Salerno.html

true_believer · Jun 13, 2021

MatthewWestfieldUK said:

I have a Bible at my work station as a reminder to keep myself in check from certain temptations.

Lanolin · Jun 13, 2021

was reading a memoir of Cliff Richard.
If dont know who Cliff Richard is, hes a famous british pop singer who never married and is also Christian.

He focused on his career, which he was actually willing to give up when he became a Christian. He was blessed. He doesnt live alone, he lives with another christian friend. It used to be his mate and his mum.

a few years ago he had false allegations made against him but they got thrown out. It was his faith that saw him through that trial. He always support charities and that is his most important work he says. His fans will always go see him wherever he tours.

before he became a christian, he had a few inapporpriate relationships, but now he counts many female friendship and male friendships, you just know when around him you can trust him like a brother. One of his most famous song is 'Bachelor Boy'. I am sure if he went round chasing women all the time his career would have ended or he would have got involved with drugs etc as so many singers have crashed and burned in the music industry. He sings gospel music as well.

Dymes · Aug 27, 2021

Scribe said:

I don't think it's that black and white. If we go by your definition of what it means to be called to celibacy/marriage, then there will be people who will believe they are called (by your definition) but fail to find a mate. So shouldn't the advice be to marry if you feel the need, stay single if you feel the need, and for those who feel the need to marry but are single by circumstance, seek God and find the joy/blessing in singleness and servitude to God? Because just because a person feel called to marriage doesn't mean that they will actually be married.

Gojira · Aug 27, 2021

Dymes said:

I don't think it's that black and white. If we go by your definition of what it means to be called to celibacy/marriage, then there will be people who will believe they are called (by your definition) but fail to find a mate. So shouldn't the advice be to marry if you feel the need, stay single if you feel the need, and for those who feel the need to marry but are single by circumstance, seek God and find the joy/blessing in singleness and servitude to God? Because just because a person feel called to marriage doesn't mean that they will actually be married.

That is most unnervingly true.

Gojira · Aug 27, 2021

MatthewWestfieldUK said:

I am never around women who present temptations to me. No flirting, no interest at all expressed. The last time this happened (on a job in this case) might have been about 14 years ago. I just don't experience this anywhere.

Of course the visual stimuli at my gym is not helpful, but none of those women ever look back (with VERY few exceptions), never mind show anything that resembles interest.

No... my temptations are mostly in my own mind. That is where the fornicating lies (and why I seek God to clean out the head).

How single Christians handle this is probably how most other Christian singles handle this. Some surrender to sin. Some try to avoid temptations and inappropriate stimulation as much as possible, though probably at times some amount of sin is committed at some point, if only mentally (this is where I fall in). I try not to take in too much of what I see on the street or gym. I have almost no temptation to look at porn (thank you God). However, periodically I do fall into the fantasizing zone which leads to other activities which I'll leave you all to determine (since some here cannot handle a simple word).

How do we do it? With difficulty. With repeated battles with the same nonsense every day, week. And, that frustrating cycle will probably continue until our new bodies are made. That's it. That's life.

MatthewWestfieldUK · Aug 28, 2021

I never had anyone to talk to regarding struggles in my younger years.
Im sure there are those who are able to cope and progress abd their ideas and support would be appreciated

Lanolin · Aug 28, 2021

I dont think there was much support in high school when I was growing up..I dont remember it. Maybe the youth groups talked about it but I wasnt a christian back then

I do recall watching a christian video where they talked about how to go about relationships and the kind of touching that was acceptable and loving for young women (as opposed to the pull their bra and bite their neck kind of touching)

but I dont know if many christian men are actually taught these days how to be GENTLEmen.

my sister subscribed to magazines like Dolly and Cosmpolitan, which basically accepted slutty behaviour. I would read them and think the most imprtant thing these magazines wanted was for girls to look like a model and buy all these clothes and makeup so the magazine could still be in print. Sometimes they just repeated the same advice over and over again and the same model. lol

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