Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Nat2019]

We will not pervert the GRACE of God. Saying it covers our future wicked acts. Even though we never repented or were sorrowful.

Gods Grace does not cover your future sins before you commit them. God sees our sins, just like he saw Adam and Eve commit sins in the Garden of Eden. His eyes see our sins, always remember that. .

God is not a BLIND God. He sees every sin. Why do you think his wrath, is spoken about every where in the bible.

 

[Nat2019]

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS inst in the bible.

Actually I am way ahead of you, been dealing with this false street preachers for at least ten years, you have fallen for false teaching from beginning to end.

They always use Calvin as part of the same ole narrative

There is no grace and peace in their teachings.....just striving and self-effort and if one manages to succeed in the sin department somewhat one will have a terminal case of human pride from what I have seen.

Just plain legalism

Anyone who wants to please God and Obey his word, is a legalist wow. Jesus must of been one according to OSAS because he obeyed his father even to the point of death.

 

[PennEd]

Where in this passage does it say a Christian who continues willfully sinning will receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Where does it say here if a Christian willfully sins he will receive punishment-

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Where in this passage does it say the Hebrews 10 people were saved Christians?
I do agree with you however that YOU CAN lose YOUR salvation.
But I can’t because I know the One who gave it to me, and holds it in His Hands, and keeps me His Child, more importantly, He knows me!

Don’t you want to know Him too?

 

[Nat2019]

Where in this passage does it say the Hebrews 10 people were saved Christians?
I do agree with you however that YOU CAN lose your salvation.
But I can’t because I know the One who gave it to me, and holds it in His Hands, and more importantly, He knows me!

Don’t you want to know Him too?

I already know him

By the way I will never accept your way to God ever, so I want to make that clear. Hopefully it is clear now.

If someone says they dont want your plan of Salvation, that means they dont want your plan of Salvation. So I wont be swayed in what I believe because I am sure 100% that this is the truth of the bible and I will never change my mind

If your on here for a good bible discussion I am all for it

 

[Nat2019]

I already know him

By the way I will never accept your way to God ever, so I want to make that clear. Hopefully it is clear now.

If someone says they dont want your plan of Salvation, that means they dont want your plan of Salvation. So I wont be swayed in what I believe because I am sure 100% that this is the truth of the bible and I will never change my mind

If your on here for a good bible discussion I am all for it

Also I can understand your point of view. You think my point of view is a false gospel, so you are trying to make me turn away from it. But even if you think I am incorrect , I am still going to follow it because God revealed this truth to me.I dont take the advice of men, but of God.

 

[PennEd]

Also I can understand your point of view. You think my point of view is a false gospel, so you are trying to make me turn away from it. But even if you think I am incorrect , I am still going to follow it because God revealed this truth to me.I dont take the advice of men, but of God.

Apparently you DO take advice from men!
Out of your own lips you do not thank God but some heretics named Dan and Sheryl Corner! Post 817 I think, in coming to this horrific theology of yours.
So which is it? The Lord or some heretic?

No condescension meant at all, but I honestly feel sorry for you. You were in a rough soul searching place, and have glommed on to something you think you can live with. But it isn’t truth. Just another deception.

 

[Nat2019]

Apparently you DO take advice from men!
Out of your own lips you do not thank God but some heretics named Dan and Sheryl Corner! Post 817 I think.
So which is it? The Lord or some heretic?

No condescension meant at all, but I honestly feel sorry for you. You were in a rough soul searching place, and have glommed on to something you think you can live with. But it isn’t truth. Just another deception.

Why are they heretics to you?

 

[Nat2019]

Apparently you DO take advice from men!
Out of your own lips you do not thank God but some heretics named Dan and Sheryl Corner! Post 817 I think, in coming to this horrific theology of yours.
So which is it? The Lord or some heretic?

No condescension meant at all, but I honestly feel sorry for you. You were in a rough soul searching place, and have glommed on to something you think you can live with. But it isn’t truth. Just another deception.

And dont say because they follow a works salvation- because they dont. They believe in a real faith that produces good works to the obediance of God.

They do not teach that works alone save. So if you say that you are not truthful about what they teach. By the way is John Calvin a heretic?. Why don't you answer that question

 

[Nat2019]

Exactly!

Those works are as filthy rags.

Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Our works are as filthy rags as you say without Christ. But the works God commands us to do are not filthy because they glorify God.

 

[Nat2019]

Yep faith produce good work

Work is the fruit of faith

Good work not produce salvation but salvation produce good work

We are not saved yet, we are being saved. We are born again, but salvation is at the end of our lives. Salvation is a hope yet to be reaped.

 

[Nat2019]

Jesus did many good works even asking the Pharisees of which good work they wanted to stone him for, were these good works born of faith or love?

Good works only come from the assurance of salvation. Where does it say that in the bible?

 

[Noose]

Good works only come from the assurance of salvation. Where does it say that in the bible?

Good works come from love not from assurance of salvation.
I will help my needy neighbor because i love them, not because i have an assurance of salvation.

Jesus did many good works out of love, not because he had faith in Christ or an assurance of salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

But a true faith keeps us saved. And also salvation isnt until the end of our lives. We are born again now, but salvation is a HOPE. Because are not yet saved. But only born again

Salvation has 3 tenses. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) The third tense of salvation (glorification) isn't until the end of our lives: 2 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. But believers have been saved through faith and are presently saved now: Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith..

In regards to HOPE, this is not a cross your fingers kind of hope, like I hope it doesn't rain next week. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

 

[Noose]

Salvation has 3 tenses. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) The third tense of salvation (glorification) isn't until the end of our lives: 2 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. But believers have been saved through faith and are presently saved now: Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith..

In regards to HOPE, this is not a cross your fingers kind of hope, like I hope it doesn't rain next week. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Good explanation, but what does this mean?

Matt 24:12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see @Nat2019 is back

Are you gonna answer?

How many works = “NO” works. As in James 2?

You still trying to not answer?

 

[Nat2019]

Salvation has 3 tenses. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) The third tense of salvation (glorification) isn't until the end of our lives: 2 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. But believers have been saved through faith and are presently saved now: Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith..

In regards to HOPE, this is not a cross your fingers kind of hope, like I hope it doesn't rain next week. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

I see @Nat2019 is back

Are you gonna answer?

How many works = “NO” works. As in James 2?

You still trying to not answer?

Sorry where was that message you provided before? And I dont know what you anyway in this message.

 

[mailmandan]

Good explanation, but what does this mean?

Matt 24:12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

This is a descriptive passage of scripture, which describes genuine believers. Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

 

[Nat2019]

Sorry where was that message you provided before? And I dont know what you anyway in this message.

Read it for yourself And answer it

James 2 New International Version (NIV)
Favoritism Forbidden
2 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.”[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[Noose]

This is a descriptive passage of scripture, which describes genuine believers.

13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

1. It is descriptive of the effort they have to put in persevering until 'the end'
2. It shows some will start but will not make it to the end
3. It shows salvation is at the end despite the hope at the beginning.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[

Sorry where was that message you provided before? And I dont know what you anyway in this message.

here does this help?

No

James said what does it profit a man if he CLAIMS to have faith

Stick to the word.

Write the rest-----And had no deeds, his faith is useless.

1. Thanks for proving me right
2. Can you define “no deeds”. How many does that come to?

Still waiting