Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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UG - you are the one who is funny! 
A person does not need to believe in OSAS to believe and know that they are secure in Christ and that they have eternal life. As I have said before on this forum, if I were to believe in OSAS, I would need to give up my assurance of salvation, because I would have to keep proving that I really was saved by doing enough good works.
The fact of the matter is, that though I am adamantly against OSAS, some in my circles accuse me of promoting OSAS because I am adamant that works do not save us nor do they keep us saved. People also confuse my view of forgiveness with OSAS, but it is clearly different from OSAS.
I believe the blood of Christ ongoingly moment by moment cleanses us from any sin we might commit. OSAS says all sins past, present, and future were forgiven when we were born again!
A person does not need to believe in OSAS to believe and know that they are secure in Christ and that they have eternal life. As I have said before on this forum, if I were to believe in OSAS, I would need to give up my assurance of salvation, because I would have to keep proving that I really was saved by doing enough good works. The fact of the matter is, that though I am adamantly against OSAS, some in my circles accuse me of promoting OSAS because I am adamant that works do not save us nor do they keep us saved. People also confuse my view of forgiveness with OSAS, but it is clearly different from OSAS.
I believe the blood of Christ ongoingly moment by moment cleanses us from any sin we might commit. OSAS says all sins past, present, and future were forgiven when we were born again!
Hi Chester works do not save us correct. But faith that produces works saves us. So faith alone with no works won't save us. So we do need Goods works that come from a genuine faith. Just like Abraham had.
U
#1899
I agree it is the wrong perspective - I had mentioned it only because I have told that line by one person here on CC.[/QUOTE]
Sorry sometimes I just want to respond to a certain portion of the post and it would be speculation to state they are in the lake of fire.
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And as for being forgiven for sin on a daily basis that doesn't really work because Jesus is no longer on the cross.
Our forgiveness isn't dependent upon God's present mercy, but Jesus' once and for all sacrifice for all time for all from 2000 and some years ago.
We are reconciled.
And we are in possession of positional sanctification.
Hebrews 10:10
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I agree it is the wrong perspective - I had mentioned it only because I have told that line by one person here on CC.[/QUOTE]
Sorry sometimes I just want to respond to a certain portion of the post and it would be speculation to state they are in the lake of fire.
_____________
And as for being forgiven for sin on a daily basis that doesn't really work because Jesus is no longer on the cross.
Our forgiveness isn't dependent upon God's present mercy, but Jesus' once and for all sacrifice for all time for all from 2000 and some years ago.
We are reconciled.
And we are in possession of positional sanctification.
Hebrews 10:10
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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Sorry sometimes I just want to respond to a certain portion of the post and it would be speculation to state they are in the lake of fire.
_____________
And as for being forgiven for sin on a daily basis that doesn't really work because Jesus is no longer on the cross.
Our forgiveness isn't dependent upon God's present mercy, but Jesus' once and for all sacrifice for all time for all from 2000 and some years ago.
We are reconciled.
And we are in possession of positional sanctification.
Hebrews 10:10
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.[/QUOTE]
once for all, never said in the future without repentance= turning from sins. Its your own personal view of the scripture.
By the way if we are truly Sorry for something we will stop.
_____________
And as for being forgiven for sin on a daily basis that doesn't really work because Jesus is no longer on the cross.
Our forgiveness isn't dependent upon God's present mercy, but Jesus' once and for all sacrifice for all time for all from 2000 and some years ago.
We are reconciled.
And we are in possession of positional sanctification.
Hebrews 10:10
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.[/QUOTE]
once for all, never said in the future without repentance= turning from sins. Its your own personal view of the scripture.
By the way if we are truly Sorry for something we will stop
.Yes to show that a person can leave the faith and abandon God.
God is faithful, but we may not be.
2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, (he remains faithful)— for he cannot deny himself.
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. (God is faithful), and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, (he is faithful)and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 10:33
33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 26:14-16 ESV / 47
Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, “What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?” And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to (betray) him.
Luke 22:54-62
Peter Denies Jesus
54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “You also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” 59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly.
Peter loved Jesus-
John 21:15-17
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
Jesus then told Peter the kind of death he was to receive-
John 21:18-19
Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”
God is faithful, but we may not be.
2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, (he remains faithful)— for he cannot deny himself.
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. (God is faithful), and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, (he is faithful)and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 10:33
33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 26:14-16 ESV / 47
Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, “What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?” And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to (betray) him.
Luke 22:54-62
Peter Denies Jesus
54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “You also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” 59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly.
Peter loved Jesus-
John 21:15-17
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
Jesus then told Peter the kind of death he was to receive-
John 21:18-19
Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”
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I see where you are going with this, I believe
God is a divider of the spirit and soul and discerns the thoughts and intents of our hearts yet,
"Judgment starts at the Pulpit". We are not only responsible for everything we teach but we are also responsible for its affect on EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING we HAVE TAUGHT.
Apparently we are even more responsible for what we don't teach. I refuse to start out "least" in the kingdom of heaven. This one verse tells me for sure who all will be least. These verses conclude the Beatitudes. Need we say more.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Do you find you have people coming after you all the time, making you feel bad for teaching what is right before your very eyes? I do)
Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. How did the scribes and Pharisees attain their righteousness?
(Thank God I repent for my sins and they are not just accumulating in the books)
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
commandments
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 JESUS SAID unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (cool, that is where the law is written)
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I my reading of this it breaks down to
Break one or teach someone to break one "least"
Don't break one and teach others to not break "great"
Internet problems all day, maybe only have a minute, if posted before sorry for the repeat.
God is a divider of the spirit and soul and discerns the thoughts and intents of our hearts yet,
"Judgment starts at the Pulpit". We are not only responsible for everything we teach but we are also responsible for its affect on EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING we HAVE TAUGHT.
Apparently we are even more responsible for what we don't teach. I refuse to start out "least" in the kingdom of heaven. This one verse tells me for sure who all will be least. These verses conclude the Beatitudes. Need we say more.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Do you find you have people coming after you all the time, making you feel bad for teaching what is right before your very eyes? I do)
Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. How did the scribes and Pharisees attain their righteousness?
(Thank God I repent for my sins and they are not just accumulating in the books)
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
commandments
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 JESUS SAID unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (cool, that is where the law is written)
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I my reading of this it breaks down to
Break one or teach someone to break one "least"
Don't break one and teach others to not break "great"
Internet problems all day, maybe only have a minute, if posted before sorry for the repeat.
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Also Just saying sorry for our transgressions won't do any good, if it's not accompanied by action. Demonstrating repentance by our deeds.
Acts 26:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and (demonstrate their repentance by their deeds).
Acts 26:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and (demonstrate their repentance by their deeds).
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I sense we have a different understanding. Indeed, one of us is ignorant. I have tried that on. It didn't fit well. I quickly grew out of it.
I believe the salvation offered is perfect, as is the one who is offering it, and as such will always be.
Satan lost his. The fallen angels lost theirs, and they were not only "Spirit led, they were in their celestial bodies at the time" There will be those who, during the hour of temptation, will take the mark of the beast and do his work and at the end of the millennium will follow him into that lake of fire. There will be no evil to see the eternal kingdom.
In conclusion, your fruits are cold, abrasive, abusive, and angry, to name but a few. There should be, especially with someone who seems to have so much knowledge, times, when you approach someone who does not agree with your beliefs with your light shining, SOMETIMES, and may be displaying
meek, merciful, pure in heart, peacemakers, attitudes.
Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
I believe the salvation offered is perfect, as is the one who is offering it, and as such will always be.
Satan lost his. The fallen angels lost theirs, and they were not only "Spirit led, they were in their celestial bodies at the time" There will be those who, during the hour of temptation, will take the mark of the beast and do his work and at the end of the millennium will follow him into that lake of fire. There will be no evil to see the eternal kingdom.
In conclusion, your fruits are cold, abrasive, abusive, and angry, to name but a few. There should be, especially with someone who seems to have so much knowledge, times, when you approach someone who does not agree with your beliefs with your light shining, SOMETIMES, and may be displaying
meek, merciful, pure in heart, peacemakers, attitudes.
Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
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There are many people with faith who have no "good works". They believe a God exists but that's about it.
There isn't Any Christian I met that believes in works alone for salvation.
There has never been any person I have met that has said this.
There isnt any one I have met that says they need to do Good works by themselves without faith.
Have you ever met someone that doesn't have faith. But just has some "good works" many atheists produce "good deeds" for human kind, but they are not (for God).
There isn't Any Christian I met that believes in works alone for salvation.
There has never been any person I have met that has said this.
There isnt any one I have met that says they need to do Good works by themselves without faith.
Have you ever met someone that doesn't have faith. But just has some "good works" many atheists produce "good deeds" for human kind, but they are not (for God).
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