Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

BillG · Jul 17, 2019

Maybe a detract but I will always bang on about it.

The truth is that God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.
That is the truth.
It's that truth that will set us free.

BillG · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Basically a person who has the same view of the Bible as you have then salvation can be lost.

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

BillG said:

Ah very interesting and I can relate to this but from a different perspective.

I believe in OSAS, not the greasy grace of OSAS theology.

I myself had a severe gambling problem.
A little background.
Very severe childhood.
Ancestry Muslim.
My mum fell pregnant with me out of marriage.
Was meant to be aborted.
She was on the table but at the last moment said no.
She was rejected by her family.
As a result she rejected me.
Threw me out when I was 14.
I suffered for 14 years.
Rejection, beatings.
She never told me she loved me.
Only when she was drunk, she would ask me if I loved her.
At times I could not, then she would beat me.

Anyway she threw me out and I was fostered by a Christian family.
I spent the next 5 years being sexually abused by foster dad.
I could go on but I won't. It's deep.
My gambling problem (btw a family and ancestry problem) lasted for 35 years.

Before and after the events above.

I called out to God for that last 20 years for release.
I even gambled and did not know I was.
Sat at my desk and an hour later I had stuffed thousands into a fruit machine.
I even poured oil over the doors of the gambling est.
I used to wake up every morning at 4.
Fear and guilt.
I even asked God to kill me.
I tried to kill myself.
But it did not happen.
The shocking thing is that I had a wife and 4 kids at the time (still have them)

Mate I just wanted to die. I knew God would take care of my family.
If I died in this state then I knew where I would go.
I was living in hell on this earth, so why not go there.
Afterall I couldn't be a real Christian given what I was doing.

Praise God, he delivered me from this.

He had to deal with the cause of affect.
He had to deal with issues that caused my gambling problem.
Healing of hurt, rejection, sexual abuser.
He dealt with that, but I had to cooperate with his dealing with it.

When I did he did.
It was amazing.
I woke up one morning and have never gambled since.
But it was the process of dealing with the cause.

And I'm telling you as a OSAS believer.

So you see it works both ways.

Truly I say to you a lot of OSAS do have a fire for God.
You discredit people like me and others.

I now walk with people in my church who are going through what I have.

Afterall what use would I be if I hadn't.

Sin management is not the issue.
Working harder is not the issue.

The issue is why we think like that.
It's the cause of the affect.

Thanks for sharing your story

. Well I guess you may see things differently than me.
I also have to recover from alot of things that have happened to me over my lifetime.

I can also relate on both sides as I have been on the other.
But there might be people who haven't found peace within OSAS and they might relate to me. They may also see this method of changing as the right one.

But thanks for your story.

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

BillG said:

It was supposed to be the other lady. Meaning OSAS beliefs

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

oyster67 said:

Sorry it was to the other lady

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Like I stated before, Christianity is about a relationship with God, not about placing one's faith in a doctrine, we place our faith in a person. Christ Jesus is the object of our faith.

Not one person that I have met that espouses conditional security has been able to clearly define when salvation is lost and how many chances a person gets to lose salvation and regain salvation?

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

I knew it, I just knew it.

Everything you have written is their false religion.

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2019

BillG said:

There is no "greasy grace".... that is a slander people use against the true Gospel of Christ Jesus

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

UnderGrace said:

If that's true please stop posting the exact same doctrinal beliefs and wordings. You might not notice what your doing but I do.

"IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS"
"FORGIVEN FOR YOUR PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE SINS.
and a list of other beliefs I cannot even remember.

OSAS eternal security comes from the Calvism. Whether it's a tiny bit of calvinism, it still comes from that doctrine.

If you didn't include statement that were the same as every other person supporting OSAS I would think differently.

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Then in the

It didnt matter how much I was told how "secure" I was in OSAS I never felt secure. Because I would open the bible and it would tell me I wasn't. My friends still fellowshiped with me even though I was living a totally sinful lifestyle, but they just felt sorry for me all the time. I had faith according to OSAS faith alone. Justification through Christ alone. I prayed, read my bible all the time. But I still couldn't be free from my sins, I was a drunk, smoking fornicater, who occasionally used drugs as well, listened to angry rap music that had so much sin in them. I swore all the time, wore provocative clothing. But I had Faith in God, went to church all the time, fellowshiped all the time, prayed all the time. I cried out to God for my sins to forgive me, but my sins were destroying me and I was in a black hole of depression with no way out. I started to become upset asking God "why aren't I "changing" God, the holy spirit is In me. I was crying all the time for the holy spirit to change me but "nothing happened"

Years and years passed I went into darkness of depression because of not being able to change.

My mental health was failing as well.

Then my mum looked on a site evangelical outreach.org. she went on there because my dad followed OSAS and turned away because of his drug addiction and hard heart toward God. My mum was wondering is my husband a Christian while using drugs. He had the faith that OSAS refers too? He went to church, fellowshiped.
Then he turned from God totally.

Then we found out evangelical outreach.org that a believer can fall away from the faith.
My dad came back to God on his death bed 3 months ago. He had brain damage and cancer, but was able to say the whole sinners repentance prayer, when he had trouble speaking.

So now I dont follow OSAS I have peace in my heart and a better relationship with God. My mental health is also alot better than It was a couple of years ago. No condemnation when I open my bible and I am now trying my hardest to resist sin, I feel like God approves of me. Also there are no horrible consequences in my life for my sins at the moment, since I am obeying the bible. So there is more peace in my life.

Yes this is what they argue and falsely teach... OSAS leads to immorality.

You have their playbook down pat... I pray you get out asap!!

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Consider the following:

2 Timothy 2:19 was mentioned... but I think it needs to be viewed within its context, especially verse 16 which (like Tit3:9 [vv.9-11*]) uses the word "shun/avoid [G4026 peri istemi]" (and verse 19 uses the word "withdraw from / [Let] depart from [G868 - apo histemi]")... so v.16 is saying to shun/avoid those bringing "profane and empty" [void-of-the-truth] "chatter/babblings" [providing the example of Hymenaeus and Philetus (who were) saying the resurrection is past already, overthrowing the faith of some, v.18]... so when we come to v.19 (where "Let depart from/withdraw from [G868 - apo histemi / stand away from]" is used), it's not a stretch to view this as speaking (in context) of those bringing such untruths [i.e. 'unrighteousness/iniquity'] that we are to "depart from/withdraw from/stand away from [G868]," like the word "iniquity/unrighteousness" [per 2Ti2:19] is used in John 7:18, "The one speaking from himself seeks the own glory, but the One seeking the glory of the One having sent Him, He is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him." [the concluding verse (of the context under discussion presently), 2Ti2:26 says, "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at *his* will."... so fitting also in this context of truth ('the acknowleding [G1922 - epignōsin] of the truth' v.25) vs error].

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal: 'The Lord knoweth them that are His.' And, 'Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from [/withdraw from/stand away from] iniquity/unrighteousness.' "

[* v.9 uses the word "G4026 - peri istemi" and v.10 of that context uses word "G3868 - reject/shun/avoid/refuse - paraiteomai"]

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Your probably scared now

- Any way I wouldn't of ever been good enough for OSAS as my sins were to bad, so I couldn't have ever been saved according OSAS. But my sins were worse than all yours meaning I was never saved to begin with for years.

BillG · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

I do see things differently from you.
But I think we differ on how we think concerning OSAS.

You seem to come across as saying that us OSAS can do what we want, and do nothing with regards to what Jesus wants us to do.

I have to say that I don't understand why you would be say that people haven't found peace within OSAS.

Where is the comfort in NOSAS?

What is the method of change?

I came to realise I can't recover from things in my life but Jesus recovers me from me things of life.

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

UnderGrace said:

It does I was an example for you

You need to get of OSAS before you lose hope, because you might not be good enough, then people will say you were never saved to begin with.

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Actually I am way ahead of you, been dealing with this false street preachers for at least ten years, you have fallen for false teaching from beginning to end.

They always use Calvin as part of the same ole narrative

There is no grace and peace in their teachings.....just striving and self-effort and if one manages to succeed in the sin department somewhat one will have a terminal case of human pride from what I have seen.

Just plain legalism

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

BillG said:

I found peace and change this way. As i said i felt no security in my sins or OSAS whatever (it was a bunch of confusion to me, that contradicted itself. I was in despair with them

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Where is Legalisim in the bible?.

Thank you Dan and Sheral Corner for showing me the truth, that changed my life and the lives of others

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 17, 2019

UnderGrace said:

I sensed the same...

Indeed it does cause/provoke "confusion"

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

Nat2019 said:

Got some of there gospel pamphlets here

Nat2019 · Jul 17, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Why are protecting John Calvin, he was a murderer who thought he was Christian. Why protect this Guy, if people dont agree with a murderer who burnt someone on green wood let them. This man wasnt a good man

Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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