Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
It doesn't both me anymore. I got upset in a live chat forum where I had 4 OSAS followers gossiping about me for an hour and a half, over 3 scriptures I posted to a OSAS believer- the man asked me if the other man who is clubbing is saved, I said no and asked him why does a godly man want to go in clubs with sinful things that are sexually immoral. I was called judgemental, I was sworn at, I was belittled, I was told I am going to cause people to commit suicide, someone also told me they own the chat forum and was acting threatening towards me and a man said he didnt care how he treated me because I am Australian and said why dont you come over here and hit me and hit me with a snake "mocking my nationality or country, I am not sure". It was shocking. But I now know how these people operate. 4 people all turned it back on me and were talking about me, it wasnt nice. I said nothing on live chat for 1 hour and a half while they gossiped about me, telling me I have no right to say this man isn't Christian and because I gave a scripture that says we should flee from sexual immorality. Another guy said "Oh people on here, use the bible to hurt others". "I was the only one who quoted about 3 scriptures, that was it". But yet the amount of judgement that comes from these people is shocking, no one pulled the man up for swearing at me. The other man called me a liar, I am not lying.
I once tried to minister to a man in the gutter. He told me that He had been to the local Baptist preacher.
The preacher informed him that he was saved and baptized many years ago, so "no worries". No matter how you slice it, that is telling people that they can live any way they want to and still get to heaven. The solution is not to live a life of absolute perfection. The solution is to come to the Lord in a spirit of humble contrition and to repent. Neglecting to repent equals loss of salvation. That is what the Bible says. They all know exactly what Scriptures I am referring to. They bend and contort Heb 10 and John 15 into anything there heart desires. I love them and try not to hurt them, but God commands us to warn them. Godspeed.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Right, God can move any mountain for a Child that "aligns” his will with His will.
No man aligns their will with God's will. Just love one another, what's so difficult with that? on top of your faith (hope for salvation), you have to put an effort to love your neighbor, it doesn't come automatically.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
Isn't that wonderful? Have you ever watched a moth fly into the fire after hatching out of it's cacoon? Have you ever watched a dog return to it's vomit?

But that dog was dog BEFORE he vomited, WHILE it was vomiting, DURING the time it went away, and WHEN he returns to his vomit.

During that WHOLE process he remained a DOG.

1563542944404.jpeg

It's late March, and the dead leaf still clung to the branch. Not knowing it WAS dead, it still tried to extract nutrients from the Branch. Just at the tip of the stem of the dead leaf was the bud of a NEW leaf. The dead leaf knew the pristine, fresh, NEW leaf was going to be it's final demise. Yet it STILL clung to the possibility it could come back to life.

As it floated down when the NEW leaf thrust it off, it finally realized it had been dead already for a long time. Soon to be turned back to dust.


This is like us. We have the seed of Christ in us, in our NEW heart. Our old, dead heart (our flesh) clings to the possibility it can come back to life. It may not even realize that IT IS NOW DEAD. The seed that Christ planted in us is growing, led by the Holy Spirit.
But sometimes that old dead heart saps strength, time, energy, and resources from us, and that stalls the growth of the NEW heart. But one day, when we get our glorified bodies, the NEW heart will thrust away forever that dead heart. What we need to do NOW is understand that the dead heart no longer has power over us. This will hasten the growth of the NEW.

Make no mistake however, that NEW heart is there, now, and NOTHING can kill it, or remove it.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
I am not sure on this, faith is the persuasion and conviction that something is true.
True, it is in us and it doesn't show outwardly until we confess.But love is something different, love has to be shown outwardly because it is only complete if the recipient feels loved through our actions and words (do to others what you would like them to do to you). Love is a command from the Lord - so the two have to go hand in hand.

Faith is the inward and love is the outward expression in obedience to a command. Without the outward expression of love, the inward is worthless.
Faith alone doesn't save, it is actually dead.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
True, it is in us and it doesn't show outwardly until we confess.But love is something different, love has to be shown outwardly because it is only complete if the recipient feels loved through our actions and words (do to others what you would like them to do to you). Love is a command from the Lord - so the two have to go hand in hand.

Faith is the inward and love is the outward expression in obedience to a command. Without the outward expression of love, the inward is worthless.
Faith alone doesn't save, it is actually dead.
Completely disagree.

Jesus saves not our love or our faith

Faith is the vehicle through which receive the gift of salvation, it is not in and of itself salvation and nor is love.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Completely disagree.

Jesus saves not our love or our faith

Faith is the vehicle through which receive the gift of salvation, it is not in and of itself salvation and nor is love.
Many are called but few are chosen
Many find this vehicle through which the gift of salvation is achieved but only few are saved

Q. What happens to the others? Does God call people and then doesn't finish the work He set out to do?

"..As many believed, to them He gave the right to be called Children of God"

Being given a right to enter the door, doesn't mean you will enter the door, you have to use your right and apply an effort to enter that door.

Many are given this right but very few will eventually be called children of God or enter the door.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Many are called but few are chosen
Many find this vehicle through which the gift of salvation is achieved but only few are saved

Q. What happens to the others? Does God call people and then doesn't finish the work He set out to do?

"..As many believed, to them He gave the right to be called Children of God"

Being given a right to enter the door, doesn't mean you will enter the door, you have to use your right and apply an effort to enter that door.

Many are given this right but very few will eventually be called children of God or enter the door.
God draws people unto Himself through the preaching of the gospel. The preaching of the gospel is God's power, his drawing power, to save ( Cor 1:18-21). Therefore, all people, when they hear the gospel, have the ability to respond to God's gospel call. They also have the ability to reject it (Acts 13:45-48).
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
God draws people unto Himself through the preaching of the gospel. The preaching of the gospel is God's power, his drawing power, to save ( Cor 1:18-21). Therefore, all people, when they hear the gospel, have the ability to respond to God's gospel call. They also have the ability to reject it (Acts 13:45-48).
Yes, the gospel is to be preached to all nations and all creatures, but that's not the calling because not everyone is called, those that accept it are called, but not all that are called will be saved, only a few are saved.

Matt 13:
3And He told them many things in parables, saying, “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4And as he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it.

5Some fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the seedlings.

8Still other seed fell on good soil and produced a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.

9He who has ears,a let him hear.”

.......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes, the gospel is to be preached to all nations and all creatures, but that's not the calling because not everyone is called, those that accept it are called, but not all that are called will be saved, only a few are saved.

Matt 13:
3And He told them many things in parables, saying, “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4And as he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it.

5Some fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the seedlings.

8Still other seed fell on good soil and produced a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.

9He who has ears,a let him hear.”

.......
Perhaps this about how the seed should take root in our life and not about salvation
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
No man aligns their will with God's will. Just love one another, what's so difficult with that? on top of your faith (hope for salvation), you have to put an effort to love your neighbor, it doesn't come automatically.
Paul said he “put on the mind of Christ daily.” No one does it on their own, thus the “command,” for believers, to be “filled” with the Spirit, which then enables us to align their will with Gods. That’s the only way it works. Believe, repent, be filled. It’s a continuous, ongoing action of repentance and filling, not being re-saved. Many confuse being indwelt with being filled with the Spirit.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,571
13,548
113
58
It is not only hyperbole, Paul has made it clear that love and faith are two different things. Love is not faith and faith is not love but love is the greatest of the two. You can have faith and not love. And it is not about loving God or Christ, it is the love for one another, for if we love one another, we love God.

But love for other people is a work and must be a work because we have to put effort. We can not love others only in our hearts, love is only full when the people that are loved fell loved and they will only feel loved through our actions and words (works). It is, "Do to others what you would like them do to you", not, "feel for others what you would like them feel for you"

Faith in Christ is only foundational but Love is the identity in Christ. So faith alone doesn't save but being obedient to the command to love one another onto faith, then salvation is achieved.

Matt 25:
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Just as I thought. You are trying to turn this passage of scripture into salvation by faith “plus works.” :( Once again, love is the greatest of faith, hope and love because long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do throughout eternity. We won't need faith and hope in our glorified bodies in the presence of the Lord. In regards to Matthew 25, you are confusing descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture and the end result once again is salvation by works. Your true colors are really showing.
 

Leastamongmany

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2019
3,270
1,269
113
Usa
Was Judas saved? Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Judas was included in those that had been sent out and returned unto Jesus. Jesus told them all that their names were written down in Heaven. Judas backslid; after the betrayal of Jesus he went out and hang himself. Did he have eternal security?
Welcome and Blessings!🙏🙏🙏
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Welcome and Blessings!🙏🙏🙏
Jesus CHOSE JUDUS ISCARIOT
John 6:67-71 ESV /
So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” Jesus answered them, “(Did I not choose you), the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.