Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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U

UnderGrace

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They are eternally secure if

So your saying we cant sin again.

I am pretty sure it says we cant keep on sinning. Some versions say we cant continue to sin.
Nope, we have a dual nature, we have the righteousness of Christ and the flesh.
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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John is talking about Christ within us.... "the seed"

The seed is incorruptible that is why we are saved and it cannot be lost, stolen, revoked, discarded, dismissed or forsaken
Sorry where do it say the in the bible? Everything you wrote about being eternally secure.
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Nope, we have a dual nature, we have the righteousness of Christ and the flesh.
But the bible says the mind set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. Put to death the sinful nature. Put to death the misdeads of the body by the spirit.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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You do realize this is refering to our dual nature and that Christ within us cannot sin.
Oh, my! There is another difference we have; but that is OK - I like your spirit and zeal for God's kingdom!

When a person is "born again", the old nature (old man) died with Christ, and the new nature in Christ Jesus is resurrected (see Romans 6:1-12 and Eph. 2:4-6). The believer is a new person in Christ Jesus (II Cor. 5:17). We still have the flesh to be sure; but that is quite different from the old (sin) nature. We do not have a "dual nature"; we are a new person at the spirit level, but at the level of the flesh we still have a daily battle to live righteously for our Redeemer King.

So, exactly right that Christ within us cannot sin! When we sin, it is our fault and our choice because we choose to follow the "flesh". So this is the war between the spirit and the flesh that Paul talks of in Romans 6-8.
 

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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John is talking about Christ within us.... "the seed"

The seed is incorruptible that is why we are saved and it cannot be lost, stolen, revoked, discarded, dismissed or forsaken
Do you think the parable of the sower has any relevancy to that statement?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Sorry where do it say the in the bible? Everything you wrote about being eternally secure.
23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:23

Salvation is a gift.

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are o beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as q you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now 5 receive mercy. 32 For God r has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Romans 10
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Oh, my! There is another difference we have; but that is OK - I like your spirit and zeal for God's kingdom!

When a person is "born again", the old nature (old man) died with Christ, and the new nature in Christ Jesus is resurrected (see Romans 6:1-12 and Eph. 2:4-6). The believer is a new person in Christ Jesus (II Cor. 5:17). We still have the flesh to be sure; but that is quite different from the old (sin) nature. We do not have a "dual nature"; we are a new person at the spirit level, but at the level of the flesh we still have a daily battle to live righteously for our Redeemer King.

So, exactly right that Christ within us cannot sin! When we sin, it is our fault and our choice because we choose to follow the "flesh". So this is the war between the spirit and the flesh that Paul talks of in Romans 6-8.
Yes the old nature and the flesh are different

Actually I agree completely, I like the way you have explained here better than stating a "dual nature"
Certainly one is the spiritual and the other the flesh.
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:23

Salvation is a gift.

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are o beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as q you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now 5 receive mercy. 32 For God r has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Romans 10
Sorry I think it's time for me to go to bed now, as you can see my tiredness is affecting my replys and grammar. Goodnight everyone
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Do you think the parable of the sower has any relevancy to that statement?
I have wondered the same actually, I think that the parable speaks to how people respond to the word of God, but not about losing salvation.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Put to death the sinful nature. Put to death the misdeads of the body by the spirit.
As for the phrase I bolded above ^ , where else besides Colossians 3:5 is this phrase [/Grk word] used? :

Colossians 3:5 -

Berean Study Bible -
Put to death [aorist imperative active], therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.

Berean Literal Bible -
Therefore put to death [aorist imperative active] the members which are upon the earth: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry,


... just curious.


[P.S. I do not believe the doctrine of "one naturism" is accurate biblically]
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Yes the old nature and the flesh are different

Actually I agree completely, I like the way you have explained here better than stating a "dual nature"
Certainly one is the spiritual and the other the flesh.
So we agree on most everything . . . :)

You are worried about me because I might quit having faith in Jesus and thus might "lose" my salvation! You think I should believe in OSAS so that I have assurance of salvation, and rest, and peace in Jesus!

But I have no worry about that: my faith is secure: I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day!

I am worried about you because if your security is in OSAS, then you cannot have assurance of salvation. If you should start sinning too much, and your works do not match up to your faith, then OSAS people will tell you that were never born again. So if you believe in OSAS you must maintain good works in order to have assurance of salvation.

Now if your belief is focused on Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection, then your faith is secure! (No matter whether you believe in OSAS or whether you do not believe in OSAS).

But from what I perceive I think your faith is in Jesus Christ, not in OSAS - so I think we both have eternal life! :) (y)
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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I would say that my security does not come because I abide in Christ, but it comes because the grace of God works in my heart to give me faith in Jesus Christ. The security is based on Jesus Christ, and not on myself. Eternal life is a gift given today to those who are believing. Eternal life as defined in John 17:3 is knowing Jesus Christ.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ have eternal life. Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not have eternal life.
Want to add to my comment Trusting in Christ as well:). Also praying that he helps me turn away from my sins everyday. Relying on his strength to help me everyday and allowing his holy spirit to change me. Meditating on his word- being renewed in the "spirit on my mind".
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Is this the scripture?
Whether we go with "justified" or "make righteous" it is still a decree by God and we are put in right standing with Him.

This is God's decree not ours and therefore cannot be undone by our actions since our actions/works did not accomplish or contribute to this "right standing"
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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As for the phrase I bolded above ^ , where else besides Colossians 3:5 is this phrase [/Grk word] used? :

Colossians 3:5 -

Berean Study Bible -
Put to death [aorist imperative active], therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.

Berean Literal Bible -
Therefore put to death [aorist imperative active] the members which are upon the earth: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry,


... just curious.


[P.S. I do not believe the doctrine of "one naturism" is accurate biblically]
Sorry not sure what you are talking about?
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Whether we go with "justified" or "make righteous" it is still a decree by God and we are put in right standing with Him.

This is God's decree not ours and therefore cannot be undone by our actions since our actions/works did not accomplish or contribute to this "right standing"
But remember there is also a scripture- who ever does what is right is righteous (Work)
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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But remember there is also a scripture- who ever does what is right is righteous (Work)
There's two sides. So thats why I say read all scriptures about righteousness and other issues so they can be put together as a whole. A bit like puzzle.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Enjoyed the interaction - but need to go on to other things the rest of the day - God bless . . .