Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Nat2019

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#363
Jul 14, 2019
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#363
UnderGrace said:
I am not writing about you I am writing about salvation, what it is, and why it is secure in Christ.
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You need to put all the scriptures in the new testament regarding salvation to get the whole context. You cant just choose a few scriptures. You need to read the bible as a whole book. Otherwise you will miss some important points.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#365
#365
Nat2019 said:
You need to put all the scriptures in the new testament regarding salvation to get the whole context. You cant just choose a few scriptures. You need to read the bible as a whole book. Otherwise you will miss some important points.
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Agree and it is clear that the believer is eternally secure in Christ Jesus.

It is irrevocable.:)
 
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Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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#366
Chester said:
Amen! Now to that I think we agree - salvation is secure in Christ!
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Chester said:
Amen! Now to that I think we agree - salvation is secure in Christ!
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This is the misunderstanding people have about people who dont believe in once saved always saved- we believe we are secure in Christ if we abide with Christ. If we truly follow, then we can have a future hope of eternal life.
 
Chester

Chester

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#367
May 23, 2016
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#367
UnderGrace said:
Agree and it is clear that the believer is eternally secure in Christ Jesus.

It is irrevocable.:)
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All those who are "in Christ Jesus" are secure and have eternal life. Those who are not "in Christ Jesus" are not secure and do not have eternal life.
 
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Nat2019

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#369
Jul 14, 2019
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#369
Nat2019 said:
This is the misunderstanding people have about people who dont believe in once saved always saved- we believe we are secure in Christ if we abide with Christ. If we truly follow, then we can have a future hope of eternal life.
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But a believer still has free will to turn away from God to sin and a false gospel, if they dont repent-turn from sin then they will be ungodly again on the way to hell.
 
Chester

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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#370
Nat2019 said:
This is the misunderstanding people have about people who dont believe in once saved always saved- we believe we are secure in Christ if we abide with Christ. If we truly follow, then we can have a future hope of eternal life.
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I would say that my security does not come because I abide in Christ, but it comes because the grace of God works in my heart to give me faith in Jesus Christ. The security is based on Jesus Christ, and not on myself. Eternal life is a gift given today to those who are believing. Eternal life as defined in John 17:3 is knowing Jesus Christ.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ have eternal life. Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not have eternal life.
 
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UnderGrace

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#372
#372
Chester said:
All those who are "in Christ Jesus" are secure and have eternal life. Those who are not "in Christ Jesus" are not secure and do not have eternal life.
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But Chester, those in Him are justified and secure because God has pronounced them innocent. This cannot be undone and a person cannot undo God's holy decree.
 
Chester

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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#373
Nat2019 said:
Is the believer eternal secure while practicing sin to you?
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1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
 
Chester

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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#374
UnderGrace said:
But Chester, those in Him are justified and secure because God has pronounced them innocent. This cannot be undone and a person cannot undo God's holy decree.
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True, God "has pronounced them innocent" - but that is not the bottom line of justification: the bottom line of why we are justified is because Jesus Christ paid the full price of redemption through the shedding of his blood. Of course that sacrifice can never be undone or replaced! I do not think anyone here is saying that!

A person is redeemed on the basis of faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ (that faith that comes as a result of God's grace working in the heart). The person who appropriates the blood is saved; the person who does not appropriate the blood is not saved.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#375
#375
Chester said:
1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
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You do realize this is refering to our dual nature and that Christ within us cannot sin.
 
Mii

Mii

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Mar 23, 2019
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#376
Chester said:
1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
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Yes but I think the word practice is the hinge pin.

Having a struggle against something is very different than willfully participating, seeking out the wages of unrighteousness, and making a lifestyle out of such and I think people get this confused.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#377
#377
Nat2019 said:
But a believer still has free will to turn away from God to sin and a false gospel, if they dont repent-turn from sin then they will be ungodly again on the way to hell.
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The believer is justified, this is a legal transaction, it cannot be undone.
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#378
Jul 14, 2019
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#378
UnderGrace said:
Agree and it is clear that the believer is eternally secure in Christ Jesus.

It is irrevocable.:)
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They are eternally secure if
UnderGrace said:
You do realize this is refering to our dual nature and that Christ within us cannot sin.
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So your saying we cant sin again.

I am pretty sure it says we cant keep on sinning. Some versions say we cant continue to sin.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#379
#379
Mii said:
Yes but I think the word practice is the hinge pin.

Having a struggle against something is very different than willfully participating, seeking out the wages of unrighteousness, and making a lifestyle out of such and I think people get this confused.
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John is talking about Christ within us.... "the seed"

The seed is incorruptible that is why we are saved and it cannot be lost, stolen, revoked, discarded, dismissed or forsaken
 
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Nat2019

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#380
Jul 14, 2019
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#380
Mii said:
Yes but I think the word practice is the hinge pin.

Having a struggle against something is very different than willfully participating, seeking out the wages of unrighteousness, and making a lifestyle out of such and I think people get this confused.
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Yes it seems there are different interpretations in different bibles.
 
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