Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 10, 2019

I'm not really sure of your overall point. But if you are endeavoring to say that certain things cannot be understood while we remain in these bodies of flesh, I would suggest that (as you are aware, I'm sure) "spiritual" does not always refer to "those who've shed their physical bodies," otherwise...

"But he who is spiritual judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one." 1 Corinthians 2:15--this apparently means that, first they dis-robed from their flesh-bodies... [??]

"And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as fleshly--as to infants in Christ." 1 Corinthians 3:1--so this apparently means they must first dis-robe from their physical bodies so Paul can then speak to them in the manner (and with the content/substance) he desires... [??]

"If anyone considers himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things I write to you are the commands of the Lord." 1 Corinthians 14:37--this apparently means that invisible [body-less] people were hovering around the group, and Paul was addressing THEM (as the only ones capable of "recognizing" such)... [??]

"Brothers, even if a man should be caught in some trespass, you the spiritual ones restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself, lest you also be tempted." Galatians 6:1--this apparently means I must aspire to being "body-less" (dis-robed from my physical body) before I can minister to that guy adequately (and that "temptations" remain possible for me, in that state)... [??]

Pretty sure you didn't even mean something like this ^ , but I *have* heard the argument that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1Cor15:50) so therefore there is no future earthly kingdom, they say...

garee · Sep 10, 2019

RickStudies said:

Because he teaches us how to walk or understand called walking by faith. He gives us the tools to make it possible to seek his approval as he commands us to. Again we must use the tools and not literalize the parables taking way the understanding of faith. We know faith represents the unseen eternal things of God . Along with the historical accuracy he hides the gospel understanding from those who do walk after what they see natural unconverted man as the signified language spoken of in the opening introduction of Revelation 1:1 . revealing to us not only inspiring it but helping us to search for the signified meaning , Thousand a word metaphor used in parables is used through the bible to represent a unknow which has to what whatever is in view time or people

Just by looking at time as a unknown represented by the word thousand. It is clear that it is not a literal thousand, as we compare the spiritual understanding of one parable to another (faith to faith) not comparing sight to sight man's faithless wisdom, but the wisdom of parables. God's wisdom from above. Faith to faith.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians2: 13-14

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Melach · Sep 10, 2019

@dcontroversal @allpost-tribbers

does this proof pretrib rapture when Jesus says its going to be like in the days of noah people were drinking eating and marrying and given in marriage.

but think about it, if this is talking about the second coming how can it say that because all over planet its going to be seals trumpets vials unleashing planet going crazy devastation like never seen before. that doesnt sound like all going same way again.

but if its talking about rapture then it would make sense, its all going like normal then rapture and then it says flood (seals trumpets vials) came and took them all away?

what do u say about this argument friends.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 10, 2019

Melach said:

And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (Mt 22:12)

Not that these believers do not have the wedding garment, but they are rendered speechless when presented with the truth.

Absolutely · Sep 10, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

""I responded with 'actually God told me to tell you that He did not tell you anything'""

Bwaaahuuuaaaaaa

7seasrekeyed · Sep 10, 2019

Absolutely said:

that's how most of these so called prophets fly these days

they go 'God told me ... ' and they have everyone's rapt attention...well those so inclined anyways

people just seem to love a mediator even though we have one already ...shrugs

Absolutely · Sep 10, 2019

""I responded with 'actually God told me to tell you that He did not tell you anything'""

....and then if they escalate the dialog into "so...my God told me to tell you he wasnt the one that told you he didnt really tell me that..."

Then just end it with "soooo,my dad can beat up yout dad"

7seasrekeyed · Sep 10, 2019

Absolutely said:

haha... you already posted that

when a person goes stomping off cause you called them on their 'God told me stuff...' you know they have nothing left

but then again, there is also this.....

Mii · Sep 10, 2019

Well I do believe there is private revelation that is personal and not meant to be shared.

of course, uh I have been told but I can't tell you is somewhat "baiting"...not everyone does that intentionally though. I did that for a while before I learned how to keep my mouth shut in certain areas

Grandpa · Sep 10, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

No. That's not exactly what I meant. But it is another issue that is argued about but is not known by us.

So it seems kind of strange to argue about. To me.

What I meant was that the Lord says His Words are Spirit and Life. So when someone says you can't "allegorize" the word but you have to "take them literally" it sounds kind of funny to me. The Lord allegorized His Word all the time to try to teach spiritual principles to carnal men.

I think this is like describing rainbows to blind men. Then the blind men arguing about how that can't be the description of colors because they have heard a different description from someone else...

RickStudies · Sep 10, 2019

Melach said:

FYI. The rapture, which is called the first ressurrection in the Bible occurs during the time of the sixth seal in Revelation.
The seven seals follow the time line outlined by Jesus in Matthew 24.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 11, 2019

RickStudies said:

Thats one interpretation

It may be this way, but many do not think this

Ps, even the first 6 seals are part of the great tribulation. Spoken of in matt 24

UnderGrace · Sep 11, 2019

Grandpa said:

No. That's not exactly what I meant. But it is another issue that is argued about but is not known by us.

So it seems kind of strange to argue about. To me.

What I meant was that the Lord says His Words are Spirit and Life. So when someone says you can't "allegorize" the word but you have to "take them literally" it sounds kind of funny to me. The Lord allegorized His Word all the time to try to teach spiritual principles to carnal men.

I think this is like describing rainbows to blind men. Then the blind men arguing about how that can't be the description of colors because they have heard a different description from someone else...

Agree, allegory ..... the parables being a prime example.

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 11, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

Agreed.

(though I wouldn't call the "entire" tribulation period [of all 7 yrs] "the GREAT tribulation," as you have here; as this "the great tribulation" refers solely to the 2nd half of it [lasting 1260 days]--whereas the "seals" are all located in the 1st half of it, and I would say, even in the 1st fourth of it, according to my study of its "chronology" [SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3/Matt24:4/Mk13:5/2Th2:8a/9a]" kicks off the entire 7-yr period])

eternally-gratefull · Sep 11, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Its all part of Gods wrath, thats all we need to know

He removes his hand of protection, and uses mankind's own hate of god and each other to punish itself, and then throws his own stuff at them also

PennEd · Sep 11, 2019

Grandpa said:

Your analogy doesn't work. When the Lord used an allegory, like a parable, He prefaced it with words like " The Kingdom of Heaven is LIKE X" This verbiage clearly makes it an allegory.

We are not permitted to pick and choose what is, and what is not an allegory. The direct context, or verbiage associated with it, does that.

I have run across people that teach and believe the Resurrection of Lazarus, and even Jesus Himself, is an allegory. And why not?

If WE can be arbiter of what is literal and what is allegory, who is to say THEY are wrong?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 11, 2019

UnderGrace said:

But that is not prophesy

Prophesy is god sayin in the future, this will happen, in this way, sometimes down to great detail

So when people alive at the time see those things occurs, they can know god said it, it happen just the way he said it wouod j just like christs first advent, and the examples of babylon, media-Persia greece and rome) he is the one true god

If we make his prophesies an allegory, this is impossible to do, (the prophesies are left to interpretation and no one can prove which interpretation is correct)

Literal interpretation leaves no doubt,

UnderGrace · Sep 11, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

But that is not prophesy

Prophesy is god sayin in the future, this will happen, in this way, sometimes down to great detail

So when people alive at the time see those things occurs, they can know god said it, it happen just the way he said it wouod j just like christs first advent, and the examples of babylon, media-Persia greece and rome) he is the one true god

If we make his prophesies an allegory, this is impossible to do, (the prophesies are left to interpretation and no one can prove which interpretation is correct)

Literal interpretation leaves no doubt,

It cannot all be literal otherwise this would be the beast in Revelation....

eternally-gratefull · Sep 11, 2019

UnderGrace said:

The beast represents a literal person or world leader (the final king who rules Daniel's final gentile kingdom)

It becomes an allegory, when people claim the literal person is anything other than a literal person. Who does the things he is said to do.

Or like saying satan is bound, when the bible says he will no longe deceive nations, yet we see, he literally is not yet bound, he is free to roam the earth, and deceive the nations as he has for over 2000 years now.

Even daniel used symbols in his prophesies, yet they tepresented literal kings, (the head of gold was nebachadnezzar)

cv5 · Sep 11, 2019

Ahwatukee said:

Greetings UnitedWithChrist,

You are correct in that, the church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. However, there is also unbelieving Israel which God is going to deal with during the tribulation period.

When the Lord appears to gather His church, the dead in Christ (both Jew and Gentile), from the on-set of the church right up until the resurrection, the dead will rise first and then the living in Christ will be changed and caught up with them. That takes of care of both Jew and Gentiles who belong to the church.

Now, what about the nation Israel who did not and does not acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah?

Daniel 9:24 states that seventy "sevens," i.e. seventy, seven year periods were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem:

7 sevens = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

62 sevens = 69 sevens at the end of which the Messiah was cut off/cruified

1 seven = A future seven year period where a seven year covenant will be made with Israel allowing them to build their temple where they will begin to make sacrifices and offerings. In the middle of that seven years the ruler/antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. This will cause the desolation of Judea which is where Israel will flee out into the wilderness which is mentioned in both Matt.24:15-22 and Rev.12:6, 14. During that last 3 1/2 years God will care for the woman/Israel out in the desert. This is the nation Israel who did not and have not acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah, but will do so sometime during that last 3 1/2 years.

The church = Made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles

The Nation Israel = Does not and has not acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah. With them the last seven years of the seventy sevens will be fulfilled.

In addition, there will also be 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel who will be sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of whom it is written, that they will not have defiled themselves with woman which would make them all males, ergo, the male child and no lie will be found in their mouths. These will be the first fruits to God out of Israel.

There will also be a great number of white robes saints from every people, tribe, nation and language (Gentiles) who are not apart of the church, but will become believers during the time of God's wrath.

"62 sevens = 69 sevens at the end of which the Messiah was cut off/crucified"
173,880 days from Neh ch 2 (445 BC) to the "triumphal entry".

Interstingly, even a great reformation bible scholar like B.B Warfield was supposedly an amillenialist.
His arguments supporting this are either vague, strained or wrong.

Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

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