Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[PERFECTION]

When it comes to the nation of Israel any theology you may wish to apply is in vain.
You can label it with any isem or scism you please it does not matter.
Fact is God has chosen to deal with Israel through His sovereignty.
It does not matter what I think or what you think.
God deals with Israel according to His promise to Abraham .
Wither we like it or not they are His chosen people and He will deliver them right down to the last soul.
My advice to anyone who would choose to put themselves between the Jews and God.......DONT!

 

[UnderGrace]

But that is not prophesy

Prophesy is god sayin in the future, this will happen, in this way, sometimes down to great detail

So when people alive at the time see those things occurs, they can know god said it, it happen just the way he said it wouod j just like christs first advent, and the examples of babylon, media-Persia greece and rome) he is the one true god

If we make his prophesies an allegory, this is impossible to do, (the prophesies are left to interpretation and no one can prove which interpretation is correct)

Literal interpretation leaves no doubt,

I think you are not realizing that "allegory" is not opposite of literal.

Abstract is opposite of literal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

"62 sevens = 69 sevens at the end of which the Messiah was cut off/crucified"
173,880 days from Neh ch 2 (445 BC) to the "triumphal entry".

Interstingly, even a great reformation bible scholar like B.B Warfield was supposedly an amillenialist.
His arguments supporting this are either vague, strained or wrong.

Hello CV5,

Just to be clear, it is 7 sevens + 62 sevens = 69 sevens, at the end of which Messiah was cut off.

7 sevens = The issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem which was given by King Artaxerxes per Daniel's request and which were the letters/decrees given to Daniel for safe passage through the Trans-Euphrates region and for the kings forest to cut down wood for the rebuilding. My Bible has a date of 446 BC for the decree for the restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem. Therefore, if we count from that date and add 69 seven year periods to it, it comes out to 483 years:

446 BC minus 483 years = 37 AD, which when you take into consideration the calendar changes, it is in the ball park of the Messiah being cut off.

There is therefore one seven year period left which is approaching quickly. And prior to that, the gathering of the church.

 

[cv5]

Hello CV5,

Just to be clear, it is 7 sevens + 62 sevens = 69 sevens, at the end of which Messiah was cut off.

7 sevens = The issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem which was given by King Artaxerxes per Daniel's request and which were the letters/decrees given to Daniel for safe passage through the Trans-Euphrates region and for the kings forest to cut down wood for the rebuilding. My Bible has a date of 446 BC for the decree for the restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem. Therefore, if we count from that date and add 69 seven year periods to it, it comes out to 483 years:

446 BC minus 483 years = 37 AD, which when you take into consideration the calendar changes, it is in the ball park of the Messiah being cut off.

There is therefore one seven year period left which is approaching quickly. And prior to that, the gathering of the church.

Exactly. All prophecy fits a pre-trib rapture and a 70th week after this event.
It is the only full and faultless description of prophetic content.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you are not realizing that "allegory" is not opposite of literal.

Abstract is opposite of literal.

Allegory is symbolic

Literal is non symbolic

If you do not take something as a literal event, you take it as symbolic, or allegory, so in effect they are opposite sides

Nice try though

 

[UnderGrace]

Allegory is symbolic

Literal is non symbolic

If you do not take something as a literal event, you take it as symbolic, or allegory, so in effect they are opposite sides

Nice try though

You are funny .. literal (reality) and >>> abstract/conceptual/ideas/non-tangible are the two domains.

You cannot argue this, this is basic.

Symbolism can be representation of reality.

Reality can indeed be expressed in a symbolic form, writers do it all the time. The difficulty is discerning the "reality" they are presenting in symbolic form.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are funny .. literal (reality) and >>> abstract/conceptual/ideas/non-tangible are the two domains.

You cannot argue this, this is basic.

Symbolism can be representation of reality.

Reality can indeed be expressed in a symbolic form, writers do it all the time. The difficulty is discerning the "reality" they are presenting in symbolic form.

Well when we are told a beast will arise, and rule the world

Literalism says there will be a world leader that rules the world.

Symbolism sayd this represents some spiritual truth, but not a real leader.

This is what i am talking about

Taking a prophesy and using an allegorical interpretation to interpret it

If god gave prophecy to prove he is god, and draw people at that time to him, there will be NO DOUBT that the prophecy is fulfilled

This is impossible with an allegorical interpretation, with allegorical interpretation you can make the prophecy say whatever you want, and there is no way to prove it.

Prophecy must be literally interpreted in contect,

The head of gold (allegory) was babylon, more specifically, as daniel said, nebachadnezzer

This is the prime example of how all prophecy should be interpreted,

 

[UnderGrace]

Well when we are told a beast will arise, and rule the world

Literalism says there will be a world leader that rules the world.

Symbolism sayd this represents some spiritual truth, but not a real leader.

This is what i am talking about

Taking a prophesy and using an allegorical interpretation to interpret it

If god gave prophecy to prove he is god, and draw people at that time to him, there will be NO DOUBT that the prophecy is fulfilled

This is impossible with an allegorical interpretation, with allegorical interpretation you can make the prophecy say whatever you want, and there is no way to prove it.

Prophecy must be literally interpreted in contect,

The head of gold (allegory) was babylon, more specifically, as daniel said, nebachadnezzer

This is the prime example of how all prophecy should be interpreted,

"not a world leader" that is a misunderstanding of symbolism.
Again the dividing line is literal and abstract.
An allegory is a representation of reality... Alice in Wonderland and Gulliver's Travels being examples.

A parable for instance is not an allegory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"not a world leader" that is a misunderstanding of symbolism.
Again the dividing line is literal and abstract.
An allegory is a representation of reality... Alice in Wonderland and Gulliver's Travels being examples.

A parable for instance is not an allegory.

You still take a symbolic interpretation of scripture, you have to in order to be anything other than pre-mill.

Definition of allegory

1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegoryalso : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.
2: a symbolic representation : EMBLEM sense 2

When someone claims a thousand years is not a thousand years, but a generalization or a symbolic representation, they are taking an allegorical approach

 

[Absolutely]

its called allegory, ie, 1000 does not literally means 1000, it means a long period of time of unknown length (allegory)

Then we can not take any number of years seriously.
Unless the historicists clue us in since only they "understand" allegory in eschatology.

 

[PennEd]

You still take a symbolic interpretation of scripture, you have to in order to be anything other than pre-mill.

Definition of allegory

1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegoryalso : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.
2: a symbolic representation : EMBLEM sense 2

When someone claims a thousand years is not a thousand years, but a generalization or a symbolic representation, they are taking an allegorical approach

Honestly, what does it matter if the Amils call it allegory, metaphor, symbolism, or some other name. It STILL means they don't believe what Scripture expressly says.

And yes, I know Scripture does use all sorts of figures of speech, but they are designated as such by the context or verbiage.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Honestly, what does it matter if the Amils call it allegory, metaphor, symbolism, or some other name. It STILL means they don't believe what Scripture expressly says.

And yes, I know Scripture does use all sorts of figures of speech, but they are designated as such by the context or verbiage.

Thats my point exactly

Imagine if messiah was just a spiritual thought, and not a literal person? We would be dead in our sin.

Plus, if he fulfilled literally the cross, it should be evident he would fulfill everything which is spoken of him literally, it is called taking what is seen, and using it to determine what is not yet seen.

 

[UnderGrace]

You still take a symbolic interpretation of scripture, you have to in order to be anything other than pre-mill.

Definition of allegory

1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence a writer known for his use of allegoryalso : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression The poem is an allegory of love and jealousy.
2: a symbolic representation : EMBLEM sense 2

When someone claims a thousand years is not a thousand years, but a generalization or a symbolic representation, they are taking an allegorical approach

LOL ... It is not an allegorcal approach you are mixing up all your literary devices.

That is not what is happening, the argument is whether it is hyperbole or not.
And I can tell since Italian is my second language this is very common form of expression within that culture and the greater Mediterranean area.
So context is the key.

 

[UnderGrace]

Honestly, what does it matter if the Amils call it allegory, metaphor, symbolism, or some other name. It STILL means they don't believe what Scripture expressly says.

And yes, I know Scripture does use all sorts of figures of speech, but they are designated as such by the context or verbiage.

Well trying to simplify complex writing is not the solution either I do not think.

It is about context... and I feel that is an unfair charge. I do not know if it a literal thousand years or a great period of time as the word was often used to mean, but we know it is a period of time is that not the real literal meaning?

 

[PennEd]

LOL ... It is not an allegorcal approach you are mixing up all your literary devices.

That is not what is happening, the argument is whether it is hyperbole or not.
And I can tell since Italian is my second language this is very common form of expression within that culture and the greater Mediterranean area.
So context is the key.

My wife is from Italy. I say this to her all the time.... In Jest!

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/80a41c0b-6064-4998-9b5a-15e18fe3af76

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL ... It is not an allegorcal approach you are mixing up all your literary devices.

That is not what is happening, the argument is whether it is hyperbole or not.
And I can tell since Italian is my second language this is very common form of expression within that culture and the greater Mediterranean area.
So context is the key.

Yep context is the key

But you still take a symbolic approach, you have to to believe the way you do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well trying to simplify complex writing is not the solution either I do not think.

It is about context... and I feel that is an unfair charge. I do not know if it a literal thousand years or a great period of time as the word was often used to mean, but we know it is a period of time is that not the real literal meaning?

Yes

so we use other aspects of things which will happen at that time

Satan will be bounf, unable to decieve nations
Jesus will rule with a rod of iron
Nations will come to jerusalem to worship jesus, those whomdo not will be punished (no rain)

Yet those who believe as yo do think all these are happening now, ie, symbolic interpretation,

Satan continues to decieve nations (see the news lately)
Juses is not ruling with a rod of iron (see the news lately)
No one goes to jerusalem to worship, jerusalem remains in ruins.

So these things are not literally interpreted, they are used symbolically, one symbolic approach (a thousand means a long period) leads to much symbolic approach.

If it is ok to do it once, its ok to do it all the time, self excusing or self fulfilling.

 

[PennEd]

Well trying to simplify complex writing is not the solution either I do not think.

It is about context... and I feel that is an unfair charge. I do not know if it a literal thousand years or a great period of time as the word was often used to mean, but we know it is a period of time is that not the real literal meaning?

It is a set period of time that Jesus will rule on planet Earth while satan is bound in chains. Scripture tells us several times that period of time is 1000 yrs. There is NO reason to try and make it anything else.

 

[Grandpa]

Honestly, what does it matter if the Amils call it allegory, metaphor, symbolism, or some other name. It STILL means they don't believe what Scripture expressly says.

And yes, I know Scripture does use all sorts of figures of speech, but they are designated as such by the context or verbiage.

This is the SAME mistake the Jews made.

They thought that, according to Scripture, God was coming to be a Conqueror for them.

Well, He did. But He did in a Spiritual Way and NOT in a literal flesh way. And so they missed it.


This is the same with ALL prophecy and the reason why there are endless arguments. We see darkly and not clearly because we are not purely Spiritual people yet.

But the pattern is there for us to "see". I know people who study prophecy don't like this. They want to take it all and make it into something they can understand.

People who are born again should definitely understand some of what Prophecy says because it applies directly to them, imo. A past, present, and future fulfilling of prophecy in a Spiritual Way and not in a literal flesh way. Still literal but not able to be seen by the natural eyes. Only able to be revealed by the "Spiritual" eyes.


I bet everyone in this thread hates me...

 

[PennEd]

This is the SAME mistake the Jews made.

They thought that, according to Scripture, God was coming to be a Conqueror for them.

Well, He did. But He did in a Spiritual Way and NOT in a literal flesh way. And so they missed it.


This is the same with ALL prophecy and the reason why there are endless arguments. We see darkly and not clearly because we are not purely Spiritual people yet.

But the pattern is there for us to "see". I know people who study prophecy don't like this. They want to take it all and make it into something they can understand.

People who are born again should definitely understand some of what Prophecy says because it applies directly to them, imo. A past, present, and future fulfilling of prophecy in a Spiritual Way and not in a literal flesh way. Still literal but not able to be seen by the natural eyes. Only able to be revealed by the "Spiritual" eyes.


I bet everyone in this thread hates me...

I don't hate you. Quite the contrary. I know you love the Lord. I just think you are wrong on this. BTW, i maintain NO ONE, certainly myself included, has EVERYTHING right.

You don't believe in a Second Coming? Please answer when did Jesus sit on King David's political throne, as promised to Mary, by the Angel Gabriel?