We need to take another look at The Garden of Eden

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mar 13, 2022
290
12
18
Again, the Bible says nothing about Adam or us ruining the image of God. You're inventing ideas instead of getting them directly from the text.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


1 Corinthians 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.



2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Ephesians‬ 4:22-24‬
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.



Ephesians 1:17-18
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
man-made?

hasn't He raised us up and seated us in heavenly places?

that's positional language, right?

:unsure:
yeah I’m referring to the idea that says “ when you sin ignore it and confess your righteousness “ rather than getting real with God and coming to this point

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


When we’ve sinned we need to own it and repent and know he will forgive us and remit our sins, if we don’t acknolwedge our sins and pretend we haven’t sinned is what I was getting at that’s made up and contradicts the truth
could be I understand the concept “ positional righteousness “ differently lol I’m not good with labels

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but if we have sinned we need to own it and confess so he can cleanse us is what I was meaning
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
How do you guys think satan got into GOD'S Garden? Could it be because the tree of knowledge of good and evil is symbolic for wicked intentions?
Dude, satan twisted wisdom to cause the spiritual tree of knowledge to be separation from GOD.
First you ask a question... which appears good at first. Then later you act like you have the answer, and imply that others are clueless. That shows that your question wasn't honest, but an attempt at baiting.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ephesians‬ 4:22-24‬ That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ephesians 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
None of which supports the idea that the image of God is ruined.
 
Mar 13, 2022
290
12
18
First you ask a question... which appears good at first. Then later you act like you have the answer, and imply that others are clueless. That shows that your question wasn't honest, but an attempt at baiting.
oi, the literal problem never ends ...it was being rhetorical.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
yeah I’m referring to the idea that says “ when you sin ignore it and confess your righteousness “ rather than getting real with God and coming to this point

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


When we’ve sinned we need to own it and repent and know he will forgive us and remit our sins, if we don’t acknolwedge our sins and pretend we haven’t sinned is what I was getting at that’s made up and contradicts the truth
could be I understand the concept “ positional righteousness “ differently lol I’m not good with labels

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but if we have sinned we need to own it and confess so he can cleanse us is what I was meaning
Another way to look at this is to consider "positional righteousness" in the context of family...

A son born into the family has an inherited "position"; he will never not be a son, even if he does something terribly wrong. A son adopted into the family will likely struggle in his identity for a while, being unsure of his status. He, too, will henceforth never not be a son, even if he does something terribly wrong. So too we as Christians are adopted into God's family; we now have the position of sons (or daughters), and doing wrong things doesn't cause us to be "dis-adopted". Our status with God is secure, but our relationship with Him can be damaged by sin. We do, as you say, correct that by acknowledgement of sin, and repentance. At the same time, when dealing with the world, the flesh, or the enemy, we stand on our position.

Hope that helps. :)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
None of those texts even hints that the image needed fixing.
“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

( after transgression )

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭

so you have this beginning when man was made in Gods image

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then adams image which led here to God repenting hed even made us

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ( not Gods image but a corrupted one ) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you have the believers of the gospel who are made in his image changed back to the beginning the image of God Without sins corruption from darkness back to light

“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan corrupted us in the beginning and Christ is redeeming us in the end I think that’s what he’s trying to say a rebirth , or new beginning that changes man back to what God had created us to be in the beginning before the devil did his work in our minds and hearts
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,660
5,908
113
Another way to look at this is to consider "positional righteousness" in the context of family...

A son born into the family has an inherited "position"; he will never not be a son, even if he does something terribly wrong. A son adopted into the family will likely struggle in his identity for a while, being unsure of his status. He, too, will henceforth never not be a son, even if he does something terribly wrong. So too we as Christians are adopted into God's family; we now have the position of sons (or daughters), and doing wrong things doesn't cause us to be "dis-adopted". Our status with God is secure, but our relationship with Him can be damaged by sin. We do, as you say, correct that by acknowledgement of sin, and repentance. At the same time, when dealing with the world, the flesh, or the enemy, we stand on our position.

Hope that helps. :)
thanks for the consideration there but see we actually can lose our inheritance at least that’s what I read here

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just my own belief we can’t say we’re not sinning if we are and expect this not to be true it’s sort of repeated in Paul’s epistles it’s how Paul preached repentance

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3, 5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He also warned against continuing in our actions bekng opposed to God and losing the promise of inheritance he spoke in the same epistles

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his epistles are just like the gospel promise and assurance first and then harder truths and warnings to bring us to repentance in deed and truth letting that inward faith manifest

Paul’s epistles are really made after this shape is my own thought ( who knows if it’s correct ) but I see them like this

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Remission of sins and also repentance seems to be found throughout the New Testament. It’s all Meant to go together and lead us to better ways. He’s not Saying you are sinless or Lost but he’s saying get real with God and when you realize you have sinned in Christ , don’t pretend you have t but confess and turn away and Christ is faithful to forgive us .

We still rely always on his mercy even though we are convinced that sin is not allowed we still make mistakes but when we do we can’t pretend we didn’t in my view that’s willful sin to refuse to acknolwedge our own sins when we are aware of them and pretend we’re righteous

but that’s only My own view doesn’t mean it’s the only way to see it just what I perceive. We’re like David if we refuse to acknolwedge sin it’s going to crunch our souls but if we acknolwedge it when we’ve sinned he’s always going to forgive us and cleanse us from the iniquity it stains upon our souls

when we acknowledge sin it brings some sorrow but it also helps us get sick And tired of sinning and helps us change
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
man is the apple of Gods eye we don’t deserve it but from the start he crowned us with glory and honor and set us above the created earthly things tomrule
In his image and Will of true love and holiness
yes in the sight of the angels, all who saw Satan fall, and some who fell with him.

does this remind you of how God says to Israel, that He will make her jealous by a people who was not a people, being found by those who did not seek Him, and heard by those who did not listen for Him?


is the physical creation His response to the fall - a testimony to the angelic realm? are we not like a parable to them?

:coffee::unsure:
 
Mar 13, 2022
290
12
18
Colossians‬ 1:13‬
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


or are you still under the power of darkness ...with your repeated willful sin?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
thanks for the consideration there but see we actually can lose our inheritance at least that’s what I read here

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just my own belief we can’t say we’re not sinning if we are and expect this not to be true it’s sort of repeated in Paul’s epistles it’s how Paul preached repentance

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3, 5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He also warned against continuing in our actions bekng opposed to God and losing the promise of inheritance he spoke in the same epistles

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his epistles are just like the gospel promise and assurance first and then harder truths and warnings to bring us to repentance in deed and truth letting that inward faith manifest

Paul’s epistles are really made after this shape is my own thought ( who knows if it’s correct ) but I see them like this

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Remission of sins and also repentance seems to be found throughout the New Testament. It’s all Meant to go together and lead us to better ways. He’s not Saying you are sinless or Lost but he’s saying get real with God and when you realize you have sinned in Christ , don’t pretend you have t but confess and turn away and Christ is faithful to forgive us .

We still rely always on his mercy even though we are convinced that sin is not allowed we still make mistakes but when we do we can’t pretend we didn’t in my view that’s willful sin to refuse to acknolwedge our own sins when we are aware of them and pretend we’re righteous

but that’s only My own view doesn’t mean it’s the only way to see it just what I perceive. We’re like David if we refuse to acknolwedge sin it’s going to crunch our souls but if we acknolwedge it when we’ve sinned he’s always going to forgive us and cleanse us from the iniquity it stains upon our souls

when we acknowledge sin it brings some sorrow but it also helps us get sick And tired of sinning and helps us change
I am not ignoring what you have written, but I am choosing not to respond at this time, lest the thread get hijacked. :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
If you died to sin, you can't sin no more, for How can we who are dead to sin continue to live any longer therein?
there is a difference between not being capable of continuing in sin and not being capable of sinning at all.
we are liars if we say we have no sin. ((this scripture is present tense - if we say we "
have no sin" not "had no sin")).
He stands forever making intercession. is this an useless activity?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
Also, beeing dead doesn't free you from judgement, He will judge both the living and the dead:

1 Peter 4:5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law),
that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

(Romans 7:1)
if you believe Romans 7 contradicts 1 Peter 4, you are in error:
you have at least one of them quite wrong.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
umm, nice try ...dude, i care more about you getting Saved.
You are wrong on several counts. Firstly, my response was not to you. Secondly, the post to which I responded is not on topic for this thread. Thirdly, do, or do not; there is no try.

Lastly, you're at least 30 years late. I was saved a long time ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.