We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.
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Yes the renewed mind is the mind of Christ.
In Ephesians 4:22- we are told:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The "renewed" of verse 23 is the Greek word ananeoō: to renew ... to be renewed in mind, i. e. to be spiritually transformed, to take on a new mind
The renewed mind is not our carnal mind with Bible verses in it ... the renewed mind is the mind of Christ. That is such an amazing truth. And this is something God works within the born again believer (Titus 3:5-6 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour)
So ... I'll tell you what I do in my life as far as being transformed by renewing my mind.
every now and again during my day I do what I call a "check up from the neck up". I observe what I am exhibiting in my life in the moment, right then.
If what I see exhibited in my life is the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (fruit of the Spirit), then I know I'm good to go ... mind renewed, living in the Lord, abiding in the Vine, etc.
However, if what I see exhibited in my life is the works of the flesh, I know I have been drawn away. Once I realize I have been drawn away, I turn my heart back to the Lord Jesus Christ and go from there. And the Lord is always there when I turn back to Him.
And, yes, sometimes that is moment by moment, depending upon the circumstances I face at any given time in my day.
And I do not believe that is "resurrecting the old man" ... I believe that is recognizing that the treasure which God so lovingly gave to me is held in an earthen vessel.
I do understand you and I understand the importance and significance of living in light of who we are in the Lord Jesus Christ as opposed to who we are in Adam.
I understand 1 John 3:9 (Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God) and I live in light of that truth as best I can.
I also understand that God gives us warning about being drawn away ... about our adversary walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour ... about be anxious for nothing ...
God would not give us warning if there was no need. And I believe that is all everyone is talking about. We've got some folks on this site who have been walking with the Lord for decades. We've seen and experienced the blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus ... as well as the let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
And I think that is all that is being cautioned here. Not that everyone is so focused on the flesh that we do not believe we are able to withstand temptation and overcome the sin issue.
In Ephesians 4:22- we are told:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The "renewed" of verse 23 is the Greek word ananeoō: to renew ... to be renewed in mind, i. e. to be spiritually transformed, to take on a new mind
The renewed mind is not our carnal mind with Bible verses in it ... the renewed mind is the mind of Christ. That is such an amazing truth. And this is something God works within the born again believer (Titus 3:5-6 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour)
So ... I'll tell you what I do in my life as far as being transformed by renewing my mind.
every now and again during my day I do what I call a "check up from the neck up". I observe what I am exhibiting in my life in the moment, right then.
If what I see exhibited in my life is the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (fruit of the Spirit), then I know I'm good to go ... mind renewed, living in the Lord, abiding in the Vine, etc.
However, if what I see exhibited in my life is the works of the flesh, I know I have been drawn away. Once I realize I have been drawn away, I turn my heart back to the Lord Jesus Christ and go from there. And the Lord is always there when I turn back to Him.
And, yes, sometimes that is moment by moment, depending upon the circumstances I face at any given time in my day.
And I do not believe that is "resurrecting the old man" ... I believe that is recognizing that the treasure which God so lovingly gave to me is held in an earthen vessel.
I do understand you and I understand the importance and significance of living in light of who we are in the Lord Jesus Christ as opposed to who we are in Adam.
I understand 1 John 3:9 (Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God) and I live in light of that truth as best I can.
I also understand that God gives us warning about being drawn away ... about our adversary walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour ... about be anxious for nothing ...
God would not give us warning if there was no need. And I believe that is all everyone is talking about. We've got some folks on this site who have been walking with the Lord for decades. We've seen and experienced the blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus ... as well as the let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
And I think that is all that is being cautioned here. Not that everyone is so focused on the flesh that we do not believe we are able to withstand temptation and overcome the sin issue.
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No, but your adding that they then died (unjustly) for Adams sin is not there. And they were punished for their sin and Noah preached to them about the wrong they were doing. So your interpretation is not correct. They did not die because of Adams sin. Adam sinner so sin entered the world. So they too sinned.
What they means exactly I don’t know but since they died because of their own sin and were punished for their own sin. The concept of sin nature had not been invented yet.
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As for Enoch, he was raptured to heaven, he never died.[/QUOTE]
In your view he had a sin nature like the rest and should have died for that like all the rest.
What they means exactly I don’t know but since they died because of their own sin and were punished for their own sin. The concept of sin nature had not been invented yet.
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As for Enoch, he was raptured to heaven, he never died.[/QUOTE]
In your view he had a sin nature like the rest and should have died for that like all the rest.
I think we are on the same page in that I too know when I'm walking by the spirit or out of it. The problem I'm having with communicating this is that I have been in the spirit so long that I don't drop out of it much anymore.
I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.
Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.
But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.
Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"
I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.
Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.
But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.
Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"
And yet God punishes them for their own sin. As I said, it’s not clear how it is not counted as sin and yet punished as sin at the same time.
Do you believe the Bible where God punishes Cain for his (not Adam’s) sin? Do you believe God punished the world wiping out all but Noah et al for their sin? It says He did, not me.
You’ll have to ask God because clearly He punishes then for their sin.
The state of the world then is not clear to us as we have never lived in that state. But no Bible writer even hints that we are not punished for our own sin but instead for what Adam did.
Do you believe the Bible where God punishes Cain for his (not Adam’s) sin? Do you believe God punished the world wiping out all but Noah et al for their sin? It says He did, not me.
You’ll have to ask God because clearly He punishes then for their sin.
The state of the world then is not clear to us as we have never lived in that state. But no Bible writer even hints that we are not punished for our own sin but instead for what Adam did.
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Paul explained clearly, if they still died even though their own sin was not counted against them, the only reason is that Adam's disobedience was imputed to them.
It follows from vs12, because of what Adam did, death came into the entire world.
You just don't want to see it. I can understand why you don't want to, because as vs 14 concluded, only when one accept this, then one can accept what does imputed righteousness from Jesus's obedience meant.
Since you don't accept the latter, it will very difficult for you to accept the former.
It follows from vs12, because of what Adam did, death came into the entire world.
You just don't want to see it. I can understand why you don't want to, because as vs 14 concluded, only when one accept this, then one can accept what does imputed righteousness from Jesus's obedience meant.
Since you don't accept the latter, it will very difficult for you to accept the former.
I think the believers then were pretty much like the believers now ... some young in faith, some more mature in faith.
The times may have changed and the world doesn't look like it did back then, but I think people are pretty much the same now as then.
We know God has not changed and we know the adversary is still seeking whom he may devour much the same as he did then.
The verse in Romans 12 is giving instruction that we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice to God (as opposed to the dead sacrifice of the offerings under old covenant. This is our reasonable service. Then do not be conformed (fashioned) after the world, but be transformed (metamorphoō) by the renewing of our mind. He then goes on to give instruction as to our reasonable service to God and instruction as to love without hypocrisy.
The verse in Ephesians relates to our walk worthy of our calling as we endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; how the body of Christ is to function ... with the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head and His gift ministries to the church providing that which is needed so that each believer is equipped for the work of ministering so that the body is built up so that we are no longer tossed to and fro by winds of doctrine. And that we do not live as unbelievers live ... put off the old corrupt lifestyle and be renewed as we put on the new man ... then discussion as to behaviors of old man and behaviors of new man.
Perhaps the same concept between Rom 12 and Eph 4, but I believe Romans is written to believers who are younger in faith.
Romans starts out with Paul writing to the saints in Rome and gives instruction concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. So we start out with instruction to natural man (whether Jew or gentile) and brings the natural man to being born again. Seems to me that Romans is giving instruction to the newer believer (although I think we should continue to read through the instruction throughout our lifetime and not think we're too far along to gain any insight).
Ephesians starts out with Paul writing to the faithful in Christ Jesus ... so maybe instruction to those who are a little further along in their walk with the Lord.
Well ... I do not believe there is any way we can clean up the flesh (old man) and that's why God gives us a new heart, the Comforter (which could not come until after the Lord Jesus Christ ascended up into heaven — John 16:7), the new man, etc.
Eventually, we'll have a new heavens and new earth and at that time, we will have more than just the arrabōn (the earnest of the Spirit) ... the pledge ... the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is both a foretaste and a pledge of future blessedness.
The times may have changed and the world doesn't look like it did back then, but I think people are pretty much the same now as then.
We know God has not changed and we know the adversary is still seeking whom he may devour much the same as he did then.
The verse in Romans 12 is giving instruction that we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice to God (as opposed to the dead sacrifice of the offerings under old covenant. This is our reasonable service. Then do not be conformed (fashioned) after the world, but be transformed (metamorphoō) by the renewing of our mind. He then goes on to give instruction as to our reasonable service to God and instruction as to love without hypocrisy.
The verse in Ephesians relates to our walk worthy of our calling as we endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; how the body of Christ is to function ... with the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head and His gift ministries to the church providing that which is needed so that each believer is equipped for the work of ministering so that the body is built up so that we are no longer tossed to and fro by winds of doctrine. And that we do not live as unbelievers live ... put off the old corrupt lifestyle and be renewed as we put on the new man ... then discussion as to behaviors of old man and behaviors of new man.
Perhaps the same concept between Rom 12 and Eph 4, but I believe Romans is written to believers who are younger in faith.
Romans starts out with Paul writing to the saints in Rome and gives instruction concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. So we start out with instruction to natural man (whether Jew or gentile) and brings the natural man to being born again. Seems to me that Romans is giving instruction to the newer believer (although I think we should continue to read through the instruction throughout our lifetime and not think we're too far along to gain any insight).
Ephesians starts out with Paul writing to the faithful in Christ Jesus ... so maybe instruction to those who are a little further along in their walk with the Lord.
Well ... I do not believe there is any way we can clean up the flesh (old man) and that's why God gives us a new heart, the Comforter (which could not come until after the Lord Jesus Christ ascended up into heaven — John 16:7), the new man, etc.
Eventually, we'll have a new heavens and new earth and at that time, we will have more than just the arrabōn (the earnest of the Spirit) ... the pledge ... the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is both a foretaste and a pledge of future blessedness.
No he doesn’t. None of those verses say that. You are adding that.
It says sin came into the world and death because of sin. Each mans own sin.
Not at all. Righteousness was imputes to Abe for the sins Abe committed. No one says it’s because of Adams sin and not our own in the whole of the Bible. No even God
Not at all. I was forgiven for my sin, not sins someone else did.
Not at all. I was forgiven for my sin, not sins someone else did.
And yet they were punished the same. What is more, at Moses the law only given to the Jews. The rest of the world still didn’t have it and. y your theory, should all have gone to Heaven, that is, none of the wickedness they did was recorded against them. Bummer for them that Jesus came, according to your theory.
I do. But I read all of the Bible to find the truth, not isolated bits.
They who sinned without the law perished without the law. But not because of Adams sin but their own.
I can see why you like your theology and refuse anything else. You’d have to repent of real sin you did (noun) not merely what Adam did which you cannot be responsible for changing. So human pride is left fully intact with no humbling required.
They who sinned without the law perished without the law. But not because of Adams sin but their own.
I can see why you like your theology and refuse anything else. You’d have to repent of real sin you did (noun) not merely what Adam did which you cannot be responsible for changing. So human pride is left fully intact with no humbling required.
