the Sabbath

[TMS]

A slave to the Law has no kingdom value compared to one who is a slave to Christ.

Life still goes on... True we are 100% Gods in every way TIME, MONEY, WORSHIP, etc. all belongs to God.

But God said to labour 6 days a week and rest on the sabbath. He created a 7 day cycle and told us to remember the sabbath to keep it holy. Many have taken this and removed it by saying we rest in Jesus. Yes Jesus is our rest every day of the week but we still need to labour and work. Jesus said the sabbath was made for man and the bible does not say Jesus removed or replaced it. Jesus is the light of the world but the sun still shines and Jesus is the water of life but we still need to drink water.

If you love me keep my commandments. as a slave to Jesus we will love to obey Him. The law is a delight to those that love the Lord.
You said "A slave to the Law has no kingdom value compared to one who is a slave to Christ." I'd say a slave to Christ results in keeping the law. like faith without works are dead. A slave without Christ love and actions is not a slave of Jesus.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Jesus said to keep the commandments.

Where does the bible say that.... If we are trying to work our way to heaven without faith in Jesus the works are worth nothing but faith in Jesus does not give us liberty to make void the law. Faith results in works faith does not seperate the worksor remove the works.
Love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[TMS]

Again, those who love God and man do not transgress the law of righteousness, 4th commandment included. You are stumbling at the stumbling stone and rock of offense. You do not attain the law of righteousness by following the law

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:31-33​

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Israel stubled because they did not accept Jesus by faith. Today we can do the same thing and it is called legalism. You accuse me of not accepting that Jesus is my righteousness and i am saved by grace 100%. I can not attain to righteousness by keeping the law. Faith in Jesus is what saves us. He gives us the gift of righteousness....

You keep saying "You do not attain the law of righteousness by following the law", and in every ways i agree every time that we do not gain salvation or rigteousness by keeping the law.

But i keep saying..... Do we make void the law through grace or faith in Jesus?
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

When you look at Jesus and come to love what He has done for you, you will delight to do His will and obey Him. Not to be saved but because you love and desire to be like Him.

 

[TMS]

Eternal righteousness already existed. It was to bring eternal righteousness to man.

because Jesus offers us the GIFT of perfect righteousness by faith to all that believe.... Do we make the law void? do we continue in sin?
NO

Does the law condemn people of sin today? YES but we have Jesus as our advocate to save us from the guilt of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If you remove a law from the 10 it will no longer condemn you and you will not know what is sin.... that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

So for me the 4th commandment explains what is sin and is right and how i should behave but for you, you do not know sin... because you do not know the law... I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[TMS]

Salvation is the gift and walking by the Spirit is the response to that freely given gift.

Your works, your fruit, your life, are simply a measure of your appreciation of that undeserved gift.

So keeping the law is not legalism when it is an appreciation of that undeserved gift. see how it is all about motive... the law isnt the issue it is why we keep the law. but many have made the law void or part of the law void to suit their lifestyle.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So keeping the law is not legalism when it is an appreciation of that undeserved gift. see how it is all about motive... the law isnt the issue it is why we keep the law. but many have made the law void or part of the law void to suit their lifestyle.

Peter had as much reason to be appreciative of the undeserved gift as anyone, yet he called the law an burdensome yoke that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear. I think you're kidding yourself if you think you have some inside track on the law that he didn't

 

[Magenta]

Peter had as much reason to be appreciative of the undeserved gift as anyone, yet he called the law an burdensome yoke that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear. I think you're kidding yourself if you think you have some inside track on the law that he didn't

Acts 15:10-11 Why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.

 

[TMS]

You are forbidden from entering the temple because you are a Gentile.

You cannot become a Levite priest because you are a Gentile.

You were never a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

You cannot marry a Jewish woman.

Your not allowed to be circumcised.

You were never under the law and it is a sin for you to be under the law.

Jesus was sent to the Jews only.

You are an alien to the covenants.

Have you read Exodus?

by adoption all of these things apply to me. We have become spiritual israel through Christ.

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

we are all one in christ....
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As an heir of Abraham most of the list above applies to me.

 

[Cameron143]

because Jesus offers us the GIFT of perfect righteousness by faith to all that believe.... Do we make the law void? do we continue in sin?
NO

Does the law condemn people of sin today? YES but we have Jesus as our advocate to save us from the guilt of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If you remove a law from the 10 it will no longer condemn you and you will not know what is sin.... that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

So for me the 4th commandment explains what is sin and is right and how i should behave but for you, you do not know sin... because you do not know the law... I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Not really sure what it is in my post you are responding to. Do you not believe eternal righteousness has always existed? Do you not believe Jesus made it available to mankind? Do you believe one can attain to it by the law?

 

[MeowFlower]

What's say we take a break from a topic that is always contentious in BDF's.

https://youtube.com/shorts/i0Bezff4SQY?si=hMkkQon3X6V9Ox3z​

 

[TMS]

The forum is about the law.

The law given only to the nation of Israel and that is clear in the text.

You need the evidence from History, Archaeology, the text (O.T), to support your hypothesis.

You can't walk around claiming the Gentile nations were given the law. When the text
itself tells us only Israel was given the law.

That is why Paul states that the Jews are first and the Gentiles second.

That is why Jesus was a Jew.

It's all about the evidence and you need the evidence to win the case.

You cannot win the case by inference.

it is also clear from history that people could become Jews.... even in the bible there have been individuals who were not jews and joined the Jewish people. converts.
A learned priest who had explored all the deities known to man at the time, Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, joined the Israelites in the desert, proclaiming ,Exo 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
After converting, Rahab married Joshua, and their union produced Jewish leaders the likes of Jeremiah and Ezekiel.
Ruth is viewed as a good example of a Jewish convert.

there are more but the point is made converting was not an issue....
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Jew were the choosen people of God and we are told today that because they failed to accept Jesus the offer went out to the gentile that they might be adopted into the family. or as Paul states clearly Grafted in.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Are you grafted in? are you part of this tree?
Thanks to Jesus i am am Israeltie (child of God)

 

[Magenta]

After converting, Rahab married Joshua, and their union produced Jewish leaders the likes of Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

There is no Biblical evidence to suggest that Rahab was married to Joshua. Her story primarily
revolves around her sheltering two spies sent by Joshua to scout out Jericho, and her conversion
to the worship of Yahweh. She became the ancestress of priests and prophets, but her marital
connection to Joshua is not supported by the Bible. <= from a general search.

 

[TMS]

Do you not believe eternal righteousness has always existed?

God has always been righteous. Gods righteousness is eternal. Sin is unrighteousness.

Do you not believe Jesus made it available to mankind?

I believe Jesus made His righteousness available to all mankind.

Do you believe one can attain to it by the law?

i do not believe anyone can attain to righteousness by keeping the law. Except Christ .....and because He died and suffered the death of the unrighteous He is able to offer His righteousness to us.

 

[TMS]

There is no Biblical evidence to suggest that Rahab was married to Joshua. Her story primarily
revolves around her sheltering two spies sent by Joshua to scout out Jericho, and her conversion
to the worship of Yahweh. She became the ancestress of priests and prophets, but her marital
connection to Joshua is not supported by the Bible. <= from a general search.

i was reading a jewish comantary. if you don't want to believe it that's fine... the point is that she was a convert.
it doesn't make any difference to me. ill share the link....
https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...azing-Converts-to-Judaism-You-Should-Know.htm

 

[Cameron143]

God has always been righteous. Gods righteousness is eternal. Sin is unrighteousness.

I believe Jesus made His righteousness available to all mankind.

i do not believe anyone can attain to righteousness by keeping the law. Except Christ .....and because He died and suffered the death of the unrighteous He is able to offer His righteousness to us.

Jesus did attain to the righteousness of the law, but He possessed eternal righteousness before doing this.

 

[Magenta]

i was reading a jewish comantary. if you don't want to believe it that's fine... the point is that she was a convert.
it doesn't make any difference to me. ill share the link....
https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...azing-Converts-to-Judaism-You-Should-Know.htm

You should cite sources. And it's not about whether or not I want to believe it. The FACT is, it is not Biblical.

 

[TMS]

You should cite sources. And it's not about whether or not I want to believe it. The FACT is, it is not Biblical.

I'm very sorry
Please forgive me

 

[TMS]

Jesus did attain to the righteousness of the law, but He possessed eternal righteousness before doing this.

So we agree that only Jesus attained to the perfect righteousness of the law.
We agree that it is by faith that we can have that righteousness....

What next? Do we continue to sin?
Do we establish the law in our lives?
Do we follow Jesus ? Do we keep the laws that suit our lifestyle and ignore the rest?

 

[TMS]

The forum is about the law.

The law given only to the nation of Israel and that is clear in the text.

You need the evidence from History, Archaeology, the text (O.T), to support your hypothesis.

You can't walk around claiming the Gentile nations were given the law. When the text
itself tells us only Israel was given the law.

That is why Paul states that the Jews are first and the Gentiles second.

That is why Jesus was a Jew.

It's all about the evidence and you need the evidence to win the case.

You cannot win the case by inference.

If you want evidence i am not trying to go back in time in looking at today.... And there is lots of evidence to show that we need to be spiritual Jews today. And as Jews today we should keep the law. According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites “according to the flesh” (Romans 9:3, 4). The other is “spiritual Israel,” composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.

Paul writes, “They are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Romans 9:6). That is, not all are part of God’s spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continues: “That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (verse. 8). The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today, any person—Jew or Gentile—can become part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.

Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews. First, there are the Jews who are only natural, physical descendants of Abraham. Second, there are the Jews in Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul writes, “Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God” (Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29).

Did you get all that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is “called a Jew” because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, “is not a Jew”—at least, not in God’s eyes. His “circumcision is made uncircumcision.” It is revoked. Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps “the righteousness of the law,” his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew.

 

[Cameron143]

So we agree that only Jesus attained to the perfect righteousness of the law.
We agree that it is by faith that we can have that righteousness....

What next? Do we continue to sin?
Do we establish the law in our lives?
Do we follow Jesus ? Do we keep the laws that suit our lifestyle and ignore the rest?

We seek His kingdom and His righteousness. That means we walk in the Spirit. He leads us in righteousness. We keep the law perfectly, and through no effort of our own. Christ lives through us.
You seem to think the Christian life is about keeping commandments. It's not. It's about living in the power of Christ. The same power that raised Him from the dead is at work in you. Make use of it.

 

[Dino246]

So keeping the law is not legalism when it is an appreciation of that undeserved gift. see how it is all about motive...

"Thanks so much for the free gifts of life and righteousness, God. To show my heartfelt appreciation for your mercy, I'm going to trample the sacrifice of your Son in the dirt by continuing to be a slave to the Law from which He died to save me."