The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[Believer08]

You know what? I believe a person can believe they are saved and not truly be saved because they believe OSAS. I have a friend who goes out often and drinks, parties and sleeps with as many woman that will let him. I have have warned him that his walk with Jesus can not be true. He told me that he eccepted Jesus many years ago and that he is saved. He let me know that he is once saved alway saved. Now this is not something he has been doing just a few times struggling with sin in his life, this has been his life style for a long while.
Now unless you are saying my friend is saved while continuing to live like this. then he is a dead man walking and needs to repent of his life style so he can be saved. He really believes he is save because of OSAS. On the other hand if you believe my friend is saved while continuing to live this life style, then you and me believe in 2 different Jesuses.

Most likely they will say he’s never truly saved

 

[GWH]

Rewards are placement in God's kingdom. Yes, there will be no sorrow in heaven. But we are encouraged to work for rewards, as with the parable of the talents. God accepts all who are born again into heaven. In reality, we are already there spiritually. (Ephesians 2:6)

My desire is to able to say, as Paul did, that I have run the race that God had for me. We are all different and it's not helpful to compare ourselves with another (one of my many weaknesses).

If we make such a big deal about salvation being through faith, it is not logically consistent to then say rewards are via works.

In the Parable of the Talents, God did not accept the worthless servant as born again.

In reality, saints were saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved if they keep on believing.

Yes, every Christian's desire should be that at the end of their lives they will be able to say the same as Paul:
that they persevered to the end of the race.

Yes, we are different members of Christ's body and should not be spiritually competitive or judgmental,
as though we have a superior placement in God's kingdom.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Got Scripture, pup.

You mean like the John 3. Which myself and others have shown you.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think he's sincere in His pursuit of God. I also think he is sincerely wrong about the passage in view.

Oh I agree. I think he truly believes what he preaches. Or what he has been taught. And he is Definately wrong in this passage and others.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Thanks in part but also says one of the ones who changes the language of the verse.

What's also fun here is watching the enemy of my enemy is my friend. One of you believes in cooperation with God and the other decries it as meritorious works.

See

Meritorious works. He thinks salvation is somethign we must co-operate or merit by our works.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Every instance of usage of "save" in any tense, needs to be look at in context apart from the blinders of the typical "are you saved" question, for example.

Look at the Rom5:9 you've posted: Justified is past - salvation is future. All such instruction needs to be reasoned and if we don't see the Salvation Process, we're going to get stuck and/or we're going to start changing the language of the Scripture.

Different forms and tenses and contexts of the words, 'save' and 'salvation' occur as I recall more than 150+ times in the NC. I recall in studying them all in context the impression that the NC is most often looking through the entrance and focusing on the Christian in the Salvation Process looking forward to the end of the Process.

We are saved from the penalty of sin (By grace we have been saved)
we are being saved from the power of sin, and growing in Christ. (We are being sanctified)
We will be saved from the presence of sin (glorified)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Agreed. I suspect that is why there is such a thing called eternal salvation? There is the initial salvation of gotten saved, being saved and then eternal?

When you were3 initially saved, God called it ETERNAL LIFE. And said you would NEVER DIE

tyhat is eternal salvation. And whoever is saved HAS IT.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

He never said that.

Your right, God never said that he would take his salvation back

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

One individual believes Hebrews 5:9 doesn’t make obedience conditional for salvation.

Obay his as obey the gospel. Recieve him. To recieve is to obey. Not in merit. But in salvation

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Amen…and it’s typically the same ones who outright refuse to say what works justified Abraham and Rahab.

What works justified them?

And abraham BELIEVES GOD and it was accounted as righteousness.

For if abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about. But not before God. For what does scripture say, Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Abraham was not justified eternally by works

However. Abraham was justified before men, because abraham proved his faith was not dead.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Salvation?

It's not even mentioned in the story.

It is plain to see you are attempting to change the subject and muddy up the water.

The subject is salvation.

I will not play your game.

Its not a game, eternity is at stake.

Esau gave up his promised birthright. He regretted it later but lost it never the less.

Your reasoning is bogus. You just don't have a honest heart to admit it.

Believe what you want. You do not even know what we are talking about. So if anything is bogus, it is your perception of the discussion

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You sure about this? Sounds like works.

Nope. Repent is not works. It is changing our view. Brough about buy Gods work in our hearts.

Nice try

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Better just put him on ignore and call it a day.

Lol

yeah, If you can not discuss anythign with them, and they do not agree with you. Just ignore tham

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If "grace was handed to them" then how "could they never had it"?

When you are given the gospel. Grace is handed to you

what do you do with it?

If you in the end recieve it in faith, you are saved

if you in the end reject it. You have fallen from grace,

It’s not rocket science. it’s like being given a contract. You can mull over it. Test it. See if it is to your liking, But in the end, if you do not agree with it. Then it is no value to you. You have rejected it.

people do this with the gospel all the time

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ughh…the ole “never had it” argument. They say that when they realize that their doctrine is false. They’d rather not admit that someone walked away..so they’d just say they were never saved…what a weak cop out.

lol, People walk away all the time

please do not slander people by saying things they do not believe.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So does God choose hell for whoever He wants to go there? Do the individuals have no choice in the matter? They are thereby eternally decreed to be damned?

He who choses to believe will never die

 

[GWH]

When you are given the gospel. Grace is handed to you

what do you do with it?

If you in the end recieve it in faith, you are saved

if you in the end reject it. You have fallen from grace,

It’s not rocket science. it’s like being given a contract. You can mull over it. Test it. See if it is to your liking, But in the end, if you do not agree with it. Then it is no value to you. You have rejected it.

people do this with the gospel all the time

If someone who accepted God's grace through faith later rejects it or repudiates their faith rather than remaining faithful to the end, they have intentionally forfeited salvation and spurned God's grace.

 

[sevoldoG]

So does God choose hell for whoever He wants to go there? Do the individuals have no choice in the matter? They are thereby eternally decreed to be damned?

They get justice. What they deserve. It’s not a doctrine that gets the masses and puts money in the plate. That’s why you don’t get the truth in most modern corporations, I mean churches.

 

[sevoldoG]

They get justice. What they deserve. It’s not a doctrine that gets the masses and puts money in the plate. That’s why you don’t get the truth in most modern corporations, I mean churches.

Paul even touched on it in Romans 9

 

[sevoldoG]

So does God choose hell for whoever He wants to go there? Do the individuals have no choice in the matter? They are thereby eternally decreed to be damned?

They get what they deserve. Justice. I answered a similar question and Paul touched on it in Romans 9. Then you will say why have you made me like this? Who can go against his will? And Paul replied who are you to question God?
God is a just God. Everyone gets what they deserve according to Him and his will. I mean, he is the creator of ALL things. He can do whatever he wants.