Proof of a Future Millennial Kingdom

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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63
#61
It's not a 1000-year temporary kingdom. It is an eternal kingdom that never ends. The 1000-year period is just a period of rebuilding the earth and restoring righteousness to it. At the end of that time the wicked will rebel, but they will be destroyed and the earth will be forever cleansed of sin. The kingdom will not cease... ever.
i know the kingdom will never cease. God said he established it when Jesus came the first time (Daniel 2)

The Stone cut without hands.
The Stone the builders rejected.

that's not what i'm asking.

so the earth is partially renewed for the 1,000 years? because there's sin and death and war in it...at the end.
so how is righteousness restored?

nah.....too much speculation:)

all based on a single chapter in a book filled with symbols.
and ALL based on the single place reigning for a thousand years is mentioned.

did you even consider it means NOW? that He reigns from heaven now over both heaven and earth - and when the time comes, it is Judgment and Eternity (New Heaven & Earth)?

a thousand is a symbolic number.

k.....ttyl
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#62
did you even consider it means NOW? that He reigns from heaven now over both heaven and earth - and when the time comes, it is Judgment and Eternity (New Heaven & Earth)?
So really what you have a problem with is an interim period in which Christ actually reigns on the earth cleansing it of sin over a period of time rather than all at once?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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#64
there are the days reckoned as by men,and the day the lord was crucified. there are the days of man,and the day of the cross,the day of judgement of the almighty god.there are no other days to be accounted for save eternity,the eight,yet their are these having the lord coming in a day as they recon,and he come in a day that they think not.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#67
Amillennialism is bankrupt IMO because it removes man from the very creation he was designed to rule: earth.
Man was made to rule earth. It will be the continuation of what satan interrupted.


Or could it be that the premil folks don’t believe our brother John was actually in Christ’s kingdom while on the isle of Patmos?
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I wonder how John was in Christ’s kingdom 1900 years ago when it is supposedly still in our future?

Or maybe the premil folks don’t believe that those of us that have been born again are in the kingdom of His dear Son?
Col1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Hath is past tense, not future, so as this verse demonstrates we have already been translated into Christ’s kingdom!

Or could it be the premil folks fail to realize we are kings and priests right now? Hath and hast are past tense. We are already kings and priests reigning with Christ.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
How can we be kings and priests if we aren’t reigning with Christ now? What are we kings over?

Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
How could we control what has been bound and what has been loosed if we aren’t presently reigning with Christ? Considering how evil this world has become it appears the church has done a poor job. I can’t help but wonder what the world would be like if people had not been deceived into believing Christ’s reign is future. Maybe if all Christians had utilized our God given authority as kings and priests over the last 1900+ years the world would be different.

For those interested in a Scripturally sound essay that demonstrates Christ is reigning may I suggest the following ARTICLE
 
D

doulos

Guest
#68
That's just opinion stated as fact...
Is it?
thousand[SUP]G5507
[/SUP]
chilioi
khil'-ee-oy
Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.
Are you sure you want to build a definite doctrine on a plural of uncertain affinity?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#69
#5507 χίλιοι chilioi {khil'-ee-oy} Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)


1) a thousand



It means 1000

We can look at many words and find "uncertian xxxxxxx"


#5508 Χίος Chios {khee'-os} of uncertain derivation; TDNT - n/a; n pr loc


#5510 χιών chion {khee-one'} perhaps akin to the base of G5490 (G5465) or G5494 (as descending or empty); TDNT - n/a; n f


#5511 χλαμύς chlamus {khlam-ooce'} of uncertain derivation; TDNT - n/a; n f




If that dosent mean 1000, we dont know what any greek word means.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#70
#5507 χίλιοι chilioi {khil'-ee-oy} Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)


1) a thousand



It means 1000

We can look at many words and find "uncertian xxxxxxx"


#5508 Χίος Chios {khee'-os} of uncertain derivation; TDNT - n/a; n pr loc


#5510 χιών chion {khee-one'} perhaps akin to the base of G5490 (G5465) or G5494 (as descending or empty); TDNT - n/a; n f


#5511 χλαμύς chlamus {khlam-ooce'} of uncertain derivation; TDNT - n/a; n f




If that dosent mean 1000, we dont know what any greek word means.
So a plural of uncertain affinity is a literal thousand? Interesting roflmho!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#71
Not every resource says "uncertian"


go ask some one that speaks greek, see what they say.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#72
Not every resource says "uncertian"


go ask some one that speaks greek, see what they say.
I have and many of those scholars informed me that while it is normally translated as 1000 it is a plural of uncertain affinity that is used to represent an unknown number. In other words it literally is a plural of uncertain affinity not a literal thousand.

Would you care to address the points I raised in post 67 of this thread?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#73
Or could it be that the premil folks don’t believe our brother John was actually in Christ’s kingdom while on the isle of Patmos?
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I wonder how John was in Christ’s kingdom 1900 years ago when it is supposedly still in our future?

Or maybe the premil folks don’t believe that those of us that have been born again are in the kingdom of His dear Son?
Col1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Hath is past tense, not future, so as this verse demonstrates we have already been translated into Christ’s kingdom!

Or could it be the premil folks fail to realize we are kings and priests right now? Hath and hast are past tense. We are already kings and priests reigning with Christ.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
How can we be kings and priests if we aren’t reigning with Christ now? What are we kings over?

Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
How could we control what has been bound and what has been loosed if we aren’t presently reigning with Christ? Considering how evil this world has become it appears the church has done a poor job. I can’t help but wonder what the world would be like if people had not been deceived into believing Christ’s reign is future. Maybe if all Christians had utilized our God given authority as kings and priests over the last 1900+ years the world would be different.

For those interested in a Scripturally sound essay that demonstrates Christ is reigning may I suggest the following ARTICLE
First I want to touch on the "thousand" thing, I have "bible dictionary" that was written by over 40 "scholars" and in it, it says, "the bible gives no formal definition of sin." 1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law." It may be that you are right about the "thousand" however just because a schloar says dose not mean it is true, I think asking someone whose 1st language is greek is a solid idea.

Anyway you asked me to comment on your post, I have to say I disagree that the kingdom of Yahweh is on earth now.

I dont think we are kings and priests right now because of this Scripture:

Isayah 66:20-23, "G3And they will fbring all your brothers for an offering to Yahweh--out of all nations, on horses, in chariots, and in litters, on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Yerusalem, says Yahweh: just as the children of Israyl bring an offering in a clean vessel into The House of Yahweh-- And I will also take of them for priests and for hLevites, says Yahweh. For as the inew heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh."

Talked about in a future tense:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Do not deceive yourselves. Neither fornicators, nor godworshipers nor adulterers, nor men who commit sexual perversions with boys, nor men who commit sexual perversions with other men, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh."

1 Corinthians 15:50, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised
incorruptible, and we will be changed
."

Ezekyl 48:35, "The distance around the city will be eighteen thousand measures; and the name of the city from that day will be: YAHWEH SHAMMAH"

I believe alot of the "kingdom is here now" doctrine is actually to get peole to accept the anti-Messiah, as one his kingdom will be VERY EARTHLY, and there is already a doctrine that says, "meeting christ in the air is not literall, it is a metapor for a higher state of consciousness." This plays perfectly into the hands of the anti-Messiah and something called "project blue beam." It is possibly the greatest deception ever planned, here are a few links if you want to unveil this deception:

Mattithyah 24:29-30, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

1 Corinthians 15:52, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed."


The pre-trib doctrine was never preached before around 1830, and is in place to get people to accepth the anti-Messiah, they will be told "meeting Christ in the air is not literal, it's is a higher state of consciousness." The UN has been publishing magazines about thier comin "cosmic christ" for 40 years or something, called "Matreyu." (sp) You need to look into "PROJECT BLUE BEAM," they plan on using hologram technology to fake the second coming, and this is no cracker-jack attempt, it real and it's real serious. Many will fall for it if it happens.

Here are some links

CNN Hologram TV First - YouTube

CNN Will I Am Hologram, First time on TV - YouTube

223 - The New Age Agenda - Amazing Discoveries TV

625 - The Coming Cosmic Christ / Secrets of the Ages - John Triplett - YouTube

Project Blue Beam By Serge Monast (1994)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#74
Is it?
thousand[SUP]G5507
[/SUP]
chilioi
khil'-ee-oy
Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.
Are you sure you want to build a definite doctrine on a plural of uncertain affinity?
Yes, very much an opinion. A doctrine built upon the allegorization of 1000 is pretty uncertain IMO.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#75
So a plural of uncertain affinity is a literal thousand? Interesting roflmho!
I'm now having a hard time finding you credible at all. I just did a word study and found that the exact same word used several times in Revelation 20 (χιλιά) is used multiple times in the LXX to refer to the exact number 1000.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#76
Considering the fact that the Greek word χιλιά is used in the LXX to designate exact quantities of 1000, I will again ask this question (in slightly different form):

What warrant do amillennialists have to allegorize χιλιά in Revelation 20 to mean that it doesn't designate the first 1000 years of Christ's bodily reign on earth?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#77
okay....so, you don't see that passage as OT for the New Heavens and New Earth.
even though a few verses before that God said it was the New Heavens and New Earth (and New Jerusalem):
Isaiah 65:17
17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. 18"But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness
Keep reading. . . v20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. . . This can't be talking about the kingdom that will last forever because there is still death and sinners, i.e. the Millennial Kingdom
2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
This is speaking of the kingdom that will last forever
~

you have flesh sinners living and dying after the Second Advent - during the Millennium...right?

what kind of bodies do the saints have?
The same kind that Jesus had in his resurrected body - flesh and bone.

then after the 1,000 years comes the New Heavens and the New Earth?
The Millennial Kingdom will end by fire and God again creates ". . .a new heaven and a new earth . . . there shall be no more death. . . ."
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#78
23. What is Amillennialism?

“Amillennialism” comes from a term that means, literally, “no thousand years”. Thus, it is essentially a way of interpreting Revelation 20, which six times mentions a period of a thousand years, during which Satan is bound and believers reign with Christ. Amillennialists believe that there will be no future thousand-year period of time when the Kingdom of God will be visibly flourishing in the world, and the whole earth will be fruitful and at peace. Speaking symbollically like the rest of Revelation, the millennium is simply a figurative way of speaking of a long period of time that is taking place after Jesus inaugurated the Kingdom of God with his resurrection. Amillennialists believe Revelation 20 is one of a series of visions, each of which describes the entire period of time between Christ's first and second comings in a different manner. The millennial Kingdom is taking place now, for Satan has been bound by Christ's work on the cross, so that he can no longer hold all the nations in deception; and believers, who seem to be persecuted and afflicted, are really reigning with Christ, and causing his Kingdom, which does not now come visibly, to spread to every corner of the earth. There is a difference of opinion in amillennial interpretation over whether those who reign with Christ are believers who are still alive, or those who have died in the Lord, and are now in his presence.

Some amillennialists object to the term “amillennialism,” because they do not properly believe that there is no millenium, they just believe that the millennium spoken of in Revelation 20 is taking place now (figuratively), and thus there will be no future golden age of the Kingdom, prior to Christ's coming and ushering in the eternal state. Amillennialists also believe that Revealtion 20 is more fully understood when reading John chapter 5 (John being the same author as Revelation). Two resurrections are also spoken of in this passage (one spiritual and one physical at the end of the age). It reveals that when Christ returns to judge the earth, the resurrection of the wicked and the righteous occur simultaneously. This contrasts sharply with premillennialism which asserts that there is a one thousand year seperation between the resurrection of the righteous and thw wicked, which John 5 excludes the possibility of. Amillennialism is really the most simple of the various eschatologies as it affirms that Jesus will soon return to judge the living and the dead and then comes the resurrection, or the eternal state, which Christ will reign on the new earth.

- Monergism.com
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#79
23. What is Amillennialism?

Amillennialists believe Revelation 20 is one of a series of visions, each of which describes the entire period of time between Christ's first and second comings in a different manner.

- Monergism.com
there are 7 visions telling the same story, but from different viewpoints or vantage points in the history, using different symbols.

they all culminate in the Second Advent - including Rev 20.

Rev 20 doesn't say anywhere that Jesus returned and gathered the saints to reign on earth for 1,000 years - then satan is released etc.

it just says He reigns, and the saints reign with Him.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#80
23. What is Amillennialism?

“Amillennialism” comes from a term that means, literally, “no thousand years”. Thus, it is essentially a way of interpreting Revelation 20, which six times mentions a period of a thousand years, during which Satan is bound and believers reign with Christ. Amillennialists believe that there will be no future thousand-year period of time when the Kingdom of God will be visibly flourishing in the world, and the whole earth will be fruitful and at peace. Speaking symbollically like the rest of Revelation, the millennium is simply a figurative way of speaking of a long period of time that is taking place after Jesus inaugurated the Kingdom of God with his resurrection. Amillennialists believe Revelation 20 is one of a series of visions, each of which describes the entire period of time between Christ's first and second comings in a different manner. The millennial Kingdom is taking place now, for Satan has been bound by Christ's work on the cross, so that he can no longer hold all the nations in deception; and believers, who seem to be persecuted and afflicted, are really reigning with Christ, and causing his Kingdom, which does not now come visibly, to spread to every corner of the earth. There is a difference of opinion in amillennial interpretation over whether those who reign with Christ are believers who are still alive, or those who have died in the Lord, and are now in his presence.

Some amillennialists object to the term “amillennialism,” because they do not properly believe that there is no millenium, they just believe that the millennium spoken of in Revelation 20 is taking place now (figuratively), and thus there will be no future golden age of the Kingdom, prior to Christ's coming and ushering in the eternal state. Amillennialists also believe that Revealtion 20 is more fully understood when reading John chapter 5 (John being the same author as Revelation). Two resurrections are also spoken of in this passage (one spiritual and one physical at the end of the age). It reveals that when Christ returns to judge the earth, the resurrection of the wicked and the righteous occur simultaneously. This contrasts sharply with premillennialism which asserts that there is a one thousand year seperation between the resurrection of the righteous and thw wicked, which John 5 excludes the possibility of. Amillennialism is really the most simple of the various eschatologies as it affirms that Jesus will soon return to judge the living and the dead and then comes the resurrection, or the eternal state, which Christ will reign on the new earth.

- Monergism.com
This belief is fraught with so many problems I don't know where to begin. It almost seems like it's an overreaction to futurism, and possibly a denial response to the fear of impending catastrophic judgment.