Preparation for the tribulation.

[SabbathBlessing]

Has anybody done any preparation?? do you think it's necessary??
I have thought about it a hell of a lot. and I have done some preparation for the war. You know, after the big war things get expensive. The supermarket shelves become empty because people start to panic. So I've done some preparation for that. Um, the power going off. I've done some preparation for that. But nothing regarding the tribulation. The last three and a half years. But I'm going to do something.

What about anybody else? have they thought about it, or done something? love to know.

God never says He saves His people from tribulation, He saves us through tribulation. Just like with the Israelites in Egypt, the plagues never hurt them, but they were not beamed up to heaven during this time. I believe the same will happen during the great tribulation before Jesus comes. Stay close and faithful to God, He will take care of our needs.

But for God’s faithful who will not be able to buy or sell, getting a place in the country and grow some food is not a bad idea. God promises to take care of us just like He fed the Israelites manna during the trial in the wilderness.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The text states (of those), "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED" (note: NOT "is STARTED *and* COMPLETED"). COMPARE this Greek word ('is completed') USED ELSEWHERE in Revelation, in the same way!

I don't know what you're saying. The bowls of wrath occur after the 2 witnesses are resurrected

 

[BobCarabbio]

Has anybody done any preparation??

Yup - back in '63, I became a Christian. No other "preparation" is required. I've got Biblical PROOF that the Rapture, when we all go to heaven will happen in 1988!!! I can hardly wait!!!

Reminds me of the '70s when The Charismatic outpouring rolled across the nation, later replaced by the "Charismatic movement" when the actual Spiritual Outpouring revival ended around '77 or so.

Folks, as they always do in times of revival, were expecting the end times, and some folks were in "Get prepared" mode. Several opportunistic "Christian entrepreneurs" were selling "Revelation food" - dehydrated food in either 3-1/2 year, or 7 year put-ups - depending on what their victims believed about "The Rapture".

They admitted that there was "theological confusion" (duh) about the end times, and they strongly suggested that people should buy the 7-year packages "in case their eschatology was inaccurate". What they didn't include, of course, was guns and ammunition, so you could murder your starving neighbors when they tried to get some of your food.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't know what you're saying. The bowls of wrath occur after the 2 witnesses are resurrected

So does Armegeddon.

So does the point in the chronology when "EVERY EYE shall SEE HIM" and HE "RETURNS" to the earth.

So?

The "2 Witnesses" ASCENDING UP TO HEAVEN is not a "SNATCH [G726]" (what we call "rapture [G726]")... It is "2 W" ASCENDING UP to Heaven.

And that takes place ^ in the events involving the "SECOND WOE" (i.e. associated with the "SIXTH Trumpet" events, NOT the "SEVENTH Trumpet" [what ppl like to call "the LAST..."]).

This is described NOTHING AT ALL like "our Rapture" is described.

I have no clue why people try to equate them. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I've got Biblical PROOF that the Rapture, when we all go to heaven will happen in 1988!!! I can hardly wait!!!

The fellow who wrote that book was an Historicist (from what I am recalling).

NO WONDER he got it wrong, he was starting off on "wrong footing" to come to his incorrect conclusions! lol

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So does Armegeddon.

So does the point in the chronology when "EVERY EYE shall SEE HIM" and HE "RETURNS" to the earth.

So?

The "2 Witnesses" ASCENDING UP TO HEAVEN is not a "SNATCH [G726]" (what we call "rapture [G726]")... It is "2 W" ASCENDING UP to Heaven.

And that takes place ^ in the events involving the "SECOND WOE" (i.e. associated with the "SIXTH Trumpet" events, NOT the "SEVENTH Trumpet").

This is described NOTHING AT ALL like "our Rapture" is described.

I have no clue why people try to equate them. = )

You expressed confusion over why the 2 witnesses will go up in the sky, and I told you why. To be with the rest of the resurrected saints while the bowls of wrath are poured out upon the earth

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You expressed confusion over why the 2 witnesses will go up in the sky, and I told you why. To be with the rest of the resurrected saints while the bowls of wrath are poured out upon the earth

The SEVEN VIALS themselves TAKE SOME TIME, and are the LEAD-UP TO Armageddon (when Christ RETURNS to the earth).


This still doesn't explain why there is NO MENTION of the "7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe]" till well AFTER the "2 W" have ALREADY ascended up to heaven. (NOT "to CALL them up")

It only mentioned (TO THAT POINT) "the SECOND WOE is past" (i.e. associated with the "SIXTH Trumpet" events... NOT the "SEVENTH Trumpet" some are insisting this "ascension" involved. IT DOESN'T! [see again 8:13 for this explanation])




I believe this is EXPLICITLY spelled out this way in Revelation 11 so that there can be NO inadvertent CONFLATING of such! If we'll just READ THE TEXT for WHAT IT SAYS (without INJECTING our own "IDEAS" INTO this text, that ARE NOT THERE! @BOY 's whole post, for example )

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The SEVEN VIALS themselves TAKE SOME TIME, and are the LEAD-UP TO Armageddon (when Christ RETURNS to the earth).

Not long. 10 days max. It will be world wide nuclear war and it's aftermath

 

[greenonions]

Hi TheDivineWatermark. Thanks for the welcome.

It looks like you are not treating the rapture as Jesus' "coming" at all. But 1 Thessalonians 4:15 refers to the rapture as "the coming of the Lord".

Also, you ask why Christians would go up to Jesus and then come down. Seems like a pointless U-turn. I see Revelation 19:1-7 as the great multitude of post-trib raptured believers. First, they need to praise God. Afterwards, they get on their horses and fight in the battle. So it's not all useless. The armies need to get dressed before the battle! (Rev. 19:8)

 

[greenonions]

Hi ewq1938

Daniel 12:2 (NIV) "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Sounds like they will be on the earth when they "awake" (i.e. resurrect).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

This still doesn't explain why there is NO MENTION of the "7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe]" till well AFTER the "2 W" have ALREADY ascended up to heaven. (NOT "to CALL them up")

I don't know what you're saying. The 2 witnesses ascend in Rev 11:11 and the 7th trumpet blows at verse 15

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hi TheDivineWatermark. Thanks for the welcome.

It looks like you are not treating the rapture as Jesus' "coming" at all. But 1 Thessalonians 4:15 refers to the rapture as "the coming of the Lord".

Of course I do!

It's just that I do not consider this text as saying / alluding to a "[coming] TO THE EARTH," but rather "coming" TO THE MEETING [NOUN] OF THE LORD *IN THE AIR*... at which point we are "snatched" and then head UP HIGHER... to where 3:13 speaks to: "BEFORE GOD the Father of us IN THE PRESENCE / PAROUSIA OF *our* Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints" (that's UP THERE).

Other passages, like Matt24:29-31 / Isaiah 27:9,12-13 refer to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (and are not referencing "our SNATCH [/rapture]," at all).

Also, you ask why Christians would go up to Jesus and then come down. Seems like a pointless U-turn.

Not really. I just don't see it in any text whatsoever.


In this Revelation 19 text itself, I see a CLEAR DISTINCTION between "the MARRIAGE came" / "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR] prepared" (v.7) and that of "BLESSED are THOSE [PLURAL] *HAVING BEEN INVITED* TO the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [i.e. EARTHLY MK age] of the Lamb" (v.9).

--The "BRIDE / WIFE [SINGULAR]" is NOT the "INVITED [GUESTS--PLURAL]," see.

I see Revelation 19:1-7 as the great multitude of post-trib raptured believers. First, they need to praise God. Afterwards, they get on their horses and fight in the battle. So it's not all useless. The armies need to get dressed before the battle! (Rev. 19:8)

Speaking of "getting dressed" ^ ... perhaps this is a good place to ask YOU how you see the following question:

WHY do we read of the promise TO BE "[SHALL BE] clothed in white himation" in 3:5, AS HAVING BEEN FULFILLED in 4:4, in the wording specifically stated: "HAVING BEEN CLOTHED IN white himation" PRIOR TO WHEN Jesus will "STAND" to OPEN SEAL #1 at the START of the "7 year period [/ Tribulation Period]"? if that doesn't indicate believers having been raptured out PRIOR to The Trib (i.e. PRE-Trib Rapture)? I'm fully convinced of this, and not merely on this couple of verses alone. There are multitudes of scriptural evidences to this fact. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't know what you're saying. The 2 witnesses ascend in Rev 11:11

... in the "SIXTH TRUMPET [events] / SECOND WOE" (NOT "7th Trumpet"! what some are calling "the last"!!)

and the 7th trumpet blows at verse 15

so it did NOT "call them UP" as many are insisting it did! Clear as day, per the what the text itself actually states!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

... in the "SIXTH TRUMPET [events] / SECOND WOE" (NOT "7th Trumpet"! what some are calling "the last"!!)




so it did NOT "call them UP" as many are insisting it did! Clear as day, per the what the text itself actually states!

That's correct. The 7th trump blows afterwards. A voice calls them up

 

[greenonions]

Hi TheDivineWatermark

Sorry, I misunderstood you. So you agree that the rapture is "a" coming of the Lord, but not the "coming to the earth" of the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 says "the coming of the Lord". The definite article seems to indicate that there is only one coming.

I agree it is odd that Jesus calls the church the bride but also spoke parables about being invited to the wedding. I just assumed they both referred to the church.

Speaking of "getting dressed" ^ ... perhaps this is a good place to ask YOU how you see the following question:

WHY do we read of the promise TO BE "[SHALL BE] clothed in white himation" in 3:5, AS HAVING BEEN FULFILLED in 4:4, in the wording specifically stated: "HAVING BEEN CLOTHED IN white himation" PRIOR TO WHEN Jesus will "STAND" to OPEN SEAL #1 at the START of the "7 year period [/ Tribulation Period]"? if that doesn't indicate believers having been raptured out PRIOR to The Trib (i.e. PRE-Trib Rapture)? I'm fully convinced of this, and not merely on this couple of verses alone. There are multitudes of scriptural evidences to this fact. = )

It seems like saints who have died can be given a white robe (Rev. 5:8). So I would say that the elders in Rev. 4:4 have died and are wearing white robes. So Rev. 19:8 could describe giving white robes to the raptured believers that did not die yet.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ But in the sentence supplied in 1Th4:17 (re: our Rapture event), it starts out this way:

For
ὅτι
hoti
G3754
ὅτι
hoti
CONJ

himself
αὐτὸς
autos
G846
αὐτός
autos
P-NSM

the
ὁ
ho
G3588
ὁ
ho
T-NSM

Lord
κύριος
kyrios
G2962
κύριος
kyrios
N-NSM

with [/ IN]
ἐν
en
G1722
ἐν
en
PREP

a shout,
κελεύσματι
keleusmati
G2752
κέλευσμα
keleusma
N-DSN

with [/ IN]
ἐν
en
G1722
ἐν
en
PREP

the voice
φωνῇ
phōnē
G5456
φωνή
phōnē
N-DSF

of the archangel,
ἀρχαγγέλου
archangelou
G743
ἀρχάγγελος
archangelos
N-GSM

and
καὶ
kai
G2532
καί
kai
CONJ

with [/ IN]
ἐν
en
G1722
ἐν
en
PREP

the trump
σάλπιγγι
salpingi
G4536
σάλπιγξ
salpigx
N-DSF

of God:
θεοῦ
theou
G2316
θεός
theos
N-GSM

shall descend
καταβήσεται
katabēsetai
G2597
καταβαίνω
katabainō
V-FDI-3S

from
ἀπ
ap
G575
ἀπό
apo
PREP

heaven
οὐρανοῦ
ouranou
G3772
οὐρανός
ouranos
N-GSM

[...]



[then goes on to tell that the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE [be resurrected] first, before the "caught up / SNATCH" occurs]

IOW, it states, "For the Lord Himself IN shout, IN voice of the archangel, and IN trump of God SHALL DESCEND..." (ALL of that), and then "the DEAD IN Christ shall RISE [be bodily-resurrected] first"... and THEN the "SNATCH-action [G726]" occurs.






In Rev11, the "2W" ascend up to heaven IN THE SIXTH TRUMPET [events] / SECOND WOE (NOT the "7th Trumpet" which many are labeling "the last...")

Things that ARE DIFFERENT are NOT THE SAME!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It seems like saints who have died can be given a white robe (Rev. 5:8).

Are you by chance referring to the "5th Seal martyrs" in the following verse?

Rev 6:11
And G2532 white G3022 robes G4749 [stolē ]were given G1325 unto every one of them; G1538 and G2532 it was said G4483 unto them, G846 that G2443 they should rest G373 yet G2089 for a little G3398 season, G5550 until G2193 their G846 fellowservants G4889 also G2532 and G2532 their G846 brethren, G80 that should G3195 be killed G615 as G5613 G2532 they G846 were, should G3739 be fulfilled. G4137


Notice that they are given "white stolē ," here, not the specifically-promised [3:5] "white himation" (that is shown as "HAVING BEEN CLOTHED [i.e. FULFILLED]" in 4:4!)

Another vital clue!






[I don't see anything in "5:8" (your reference) that NECESSITATES these saints to have DIED... They DO say in v.9 "hast redeemed US to God by Thy blood... out-of EVERY..." ; but this doesn't necessarily indicate they'd *all* DIED before arriving here! lol]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You don't care about the rest of the verses I can see that. just a bit that you like, just a bit that justifies to you a pretrb rupture.

The member you are talking with (ewq1938) is NOT a "pre-trib Rapture" adherent. (I think he's POST-trib.)

I do agree with you that he is wrenching a number of verses from their actual meaning, however. lol

 

[greenonions]

It seems like saints who have died can be given a white robe (Rev. 5:8).

Sorry, I meant Rev. 6:11 about the martyrs at the 5th seal.

Also, sorry I misunderstood what you meant by 2W. I now understand that you are referring to the two witnesses. I don't think their ascension is the rapture of the church. I think the angel coming down from heaven with great authority and light and glory in Rev. 18:1 is Jesus, and the rapture takes place shortly afterwards.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Sorry, I meant Rev. 6:11 about the martyrs at the 5th seal.

Right.

So the question (I posed) goes back to... THAT WHICH is promised in 3:5 ("SHALL BE clothed in white HIMATION"), in the "things WHICH ARE" section," is SHOWN as HAVING BEEN FULFILLED in 4:4 ("HAVING BEEN CLOTHED in white HIMATION")

...and that's BEFORE Jesus will "STAND" to OPEN Seal #1 at the START of the "7 year period" (the "things which MUST come to pass IN QUICKNESS [noun]" section, "AFTER THESE THINGS" [i.e. AFTER "the things WHICH ARE" section, chpts 2-3], per 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1--the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book).



So we were talking about "being clothed" (your reference to Rev19), but MY question is, why overlook THIS PROMISE (in 3:5) as HAVING BEEN FULFILLED (in 4:4, BEFORE the "TRIB" STARTS)?








[And.... NOT that I think THIS was your point after all... but, why would we have to ASSUME these saints who are saying "hast redeemed US to God BY Thy blood... out-of EVERY..." (in 5:9) means they MUST have DIED, when NOWHERE in this text does it even allude to this as being a necessity?? But YOU had meant the MARTYRS in 6:11 instead (clothed in "STOLE," NOT "HIMATION"!!)... so there's that. lol]