My Walk with Christ, as an Evangelical Christian.

[VCO]

I don't think you are familiar with all the groups that make up evangelicalism. This is the sort of thing dispensationalists say, but not all evangelicals are dispensationalists. For example, some are amil. As much as you emphasize predestination, it is odd that you are not aware of that, since many of the Calvinist persuasion are amil.



'Literally' versus allegorical doesn't add much to your argument. Where does the Bible teach that 'crawling into a river or a baptistry is a work.' The person getting baptized isn't even doing the baptizing. If someone thought they were being justified by baptizing others, maybe you would have an argument about trusting in one's own works.

In Acts 2, did Peter tell his audience to do the works of the law in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the forgiveness of sin? When Ananias told Saul of Tarsus to by baptized and wash away his sin, was he telling him to wash away his sin through good works, or through the works of the law? If so, why would he repeat it while proclaiming Christ in the temple?



These are great verses, but how are they related to the point we are discussing.



I will believe the Bible. You can believe the Bible... or try to find contradictions where none exist.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.



WOW, they, in my opinion, are not true Evangelicals. They stuck out name there, but they do not believe what Evangelicals Believe.
We all pretty much BELIEVE the same identical Doctrinal Statements.

My Wife and I have have been part of this Churches in small town. In small Towns, we do not have a wide variety of Churches, but every time I have been able to find at least ONE truly Evangelical Church, no matter what Title you hang Your Hat on.

Community Churches - - - - - - - - 4
Bible Churches - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4
Evangelical Free Churches - - - 2
Baptist Churches - - - - - - - - - - - 2
Bible Fellowship Churches - - - 2

ALL OF THEM HAD THE SAME DOCTRINAL STATEMENTS in their STATEMENT OF FAITH.

Anything you do is a WORK. NO AMOUNT of works, will satisfied SIN DEBT, only a Holy Blood Sacrifice will wash away SIN.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 It is not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin comes through the law.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.


No, you can believe what you want to believe,

BUT WE WILL BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

The only pure motive for Serving Him, is to SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM.

 

[VCO]

Maybe it's the end of the matter for you, but unfortunately for you (and fortunately for me), neither you nor your "statement" get the last word; that's reserved for God's inspired scriptures.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

That is TWO.

 

[presidente]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

WOW, they, in my opinion, are not true Evangelicals. They stuck out name there, but they do not believe what Evangelicals Believe.
We all pretty much BELIEVE the same identical Doctrinal Statements.

Hmm. So do you think Evangelical Presbyterians are not Evangelical? If I am not mistaken, RC Sproule was amil. Do you think he was not an evangelical?

Anything you do is a WORK. NO AMOUNT of works, will satisfied SIN DEBT, only a Holy Blood Sacrifice will wash away SIN.

Do you believe confessing Jesus as Lord is a 'work' the way Paul uses the term?

No, you can believe what you want to believe,

BUT WE WILL BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

Will you believe the parts of the Bible I quoted to you in previous posts. I didn't see your responses to those scriptures, for example, he that believes and is baptized will be saved, repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, for the remission of sins, and baptism doth now save us. I didn't see comments on those scriptures in your post. Do you believe them, also?

 

[presidente]

Presidente
Peter said 'baptism now saves you...'. Do you think I am a heretic for repeating Peter's teachings? You said it not me take it out of context twist it into something that God never mint to be in the bible.




1 Peter 3 18-22

18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, 19in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water. 21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.

Please read the verses before the one you posted. It is taken completely out of context. You could so easily mislead a new Christian or someone that is nor a Christian they might go out get baptized not understanding anything but what you posted and end up not making it. Then you would have to stand before God at the white throne of judgment and answer or that.
I could make a case for Satan being Jesus if I picked a verse here and from there and put them together.

How does adding the verses before it change the meaning of the verse I quoted... even if this loose dynamic equivalence translation you used?

 

[Nehemiah6]

LOL! if being an "evangelical" Christian means putting my name behind that long a man-written doctrinal statement then I will just stick to being a Christian or a follower of Jesus and I will read the Word, and let the theologians wrestle with their theological wordings.

The point of having a Statement of Faith (within a church setting) is so that anyone who is curious about their beliefs will have then all spelled out. There's nothing wrong with that, given the fact that there are many cults and bizarre doctrines around. "Followers of Jesus" also had "the apostles' doctrine" in the Jerusalem church: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42). So Statements of Faith are summations of the church's doctrines.

 

[VCO]

Hmm. So do you think Evangelical Presbyterians are not Evangelical? If I am not mistaken, RC Sproule was amil. Do you think he was not an evangelical?



Do you believe confessing Jesus as Lord is a 'work' the way Paul uses the term?



Will you believe the parts of the Bible I quoted to you in previous posts. I didn't see your responses to those scriptures, for example, he that believes and is baptized will be saved, repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of the Lord Jesus, for the remission of sins, and baptism doth now save us. I didn't see comments on those scriptures in your post. Do you believe them, also?

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

That is not talking about being emersed in water, it is talking about the Holy Spirit emersed US in the spiritual Body of Jesus Christ.

But now I see the Problem.

We do not believe if you have properly interpreted the Verse, there will be NO CONTRADICTION in the BIBLE. If you find a Contradiction, YOU, have made an
error in interpreting at least ONE of the TWO verses, if not BOTH OF THEM.

You seem to think their are Several Contradictions in your bible.

There are NONE in my Bible.

 

[presidente]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

That is not talking about being emersed in water, it is talking about the Holy Spirit emersed US in the spiritual Body of Jesus Christ.

Look in Acts. Peter said, 'who should forbid water' about the Gentiles in Cornelius' house. Philip baptized the eunuch when they came to some water. What reason is there to think that Peter meant something other than baptism in water when he said to repent and be baptized? Jesus told the apostles to teach the nations and baptize them. the Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ. The apostles, and others, could baptize.

We do not believe if you have properly interpreted the Verse, there will be NO CONTRADICTION in the BIBLE. If you find a Contradiction, YOU, have made an
error in interpreting at least ONE of the TWO verses, if not BOTH OF THEM.

You seem to think their are Several Contradictions in your bible.

I think you are creating contradicting interpretations when there are no contradictions there.

 

[VCO]

Look in Acts. Peter said, 'who should forbid water' about the Gentiles in Cornelius' house. Philip baptized the eunuch when they came to some water. What reason is there to think that Peter meant something other than baptism in water when he said to repent and be baptized? Jesus told the apostles to teach the nations and baptize them. the Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ. The apostles, and others, could baptize.



I think you are creating contradicting interpretations when there are no contradictions there.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat. Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.

Believe what you want to believe,

But we will believe what we know the Bible is saying.

I Agree to Disagree.

End of Subject.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

You know that is not what I meant. What Denomination do you identify with ? ? ?

And yes you do bicker and try to argue. You are not fooling anyone.

Reread that Post of HOW WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Believe what you want, It doesn't bother me.

 

[mustaphadrink]

I don't know if you realize that one of the reasons we have places like this is due to the church not practicing the priesthood of all believers. Most churches practice the priesthood of some believers but not all. What that means is that there is an untapped source of spiritual guidance and advice in the church that one man cannot replicate.

If you are being the Christian you should be, you should not be sitting on the premises, you should be standing on the promises. Unfortunately, too many churches prefer you to sit on the premises only. This can produce the mentality that it is his job. that is what we pay him for so let him get on with it. Particularly so with mega-churches. When they sing "O come let us adore him" I get the feeling they are referring to the celebrity preacher.

it is a fact that everything has to go somewhere. If the door is closed here, it will push open a door there etc. A lot of the stuff written here is complete rubbish but what can you expect when you are being denied what is rightfully yours?

Wassamatter VCO Can't handle the truth?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.


Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

How is that loving attitude that Christ wants in us ? ? ?

Where is your Love ? ? ?


Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

1 Corinthians 13:3-7 (NCV)
3 I may give away everything I have, and I may even give my body as an offering to be burned.
But I gain nothing if I do not have love.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud.
5 Love is not rude, is not selfish, and does not get upset with others. Love does not count up wrongs that have been done.
6 Love is not happy with evil but is happy with the truth.
7 Love patiently accepts all things. It always trusts, always hopes, and always remains strong.

Thank you for your unloving and pharisaical response.

 

[mustaphadrink]

If I were of a mind to put together a church doctrinal statement, that might actually serve to exclude some from fellowship (or self-select out), I don't think I would get as specific on Millennialism. I accept pre-mil, but I wouldn't want that to be a test of fellowship. It is also odd to me that the statement mentions this, but no specific mention of water baptism at all. It says the Holy Spirit baptizes the believer into the body of Christ.

I was told that in too many cases churches' doctrinal statement was intended to exclude not include. As in if you don't subscribe to what we believe we don't want you. It happened to me once. I was a founding member of a church and they decided to bring in a statement of faith that we all had to agree with and sign. I read it and told them I can't sign it because there was one doctrine I was still working through and had not formulated my thinking on it yet. I didn't disagree with it just still a bit hesitant. The next thing I know I was told that I was being removed from all ministry and was not allowed to do anything until I has signed.

Didn't bother me as it happened the pastor said God had told him that he was going to double the congregation every year. That means that by now it should be about 56,000. Most weeks they don't get more than 50.

 

[presidente]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat. Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.

Believe what you want to believe,

But we will believe what we know the Bible is saying.

Believe the next verse which you did not quote also,
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
(ESV)

'Us' is a bigger group than Noah and his immediate family.

 

[presidente]

I was told that in too many cases churches' doctrinal statement was intended to exclude not include. As in if you don't subscribe to what we believe we don't want you. It happened to me once. I was a founding member of a church and they decided to bring in a statement of faith that we all had to agree with and sign. I read it and told them I can't sign it because there was one doctrine I was still working through and had not formulated my thinking on it yet. I didn't disagree with it just still a bit hesitant. The next thing I know I was told that I was being removed from all ministry and was not allowed to do anything until I has signed.

I've had similar things happen to me. A pastor asked me to teach this church booklet. It was a new church and some doctrinal stuff hadn't been written down. I pointed to something I didn't believe, some rather speculative assertion about what church government should be like, and told him I couldn't teach it because I did not believe that.

I also applied to a job at a Christian school that require signing a doctrinal statement. It had a very specific theory about the role of the Spirit, which I do not recall exactly, that doesn't even show up in western theology, but rather Eastern Orthodoxy, and this was a nondenominational school. And to apply you had to agree to everything. I'd done so much, I just turned in my application and said I had no opinion on that point of doctrine.

This type of thing ends up weeding out people who care about doctrine, who have convictions, and who have the integrity not to sign something that says they believe something they don't just to get a job.

Another time I applied to work at a Christian educational institution, and I was given a rather lengthy set of rules to follow that included a vow to God to keep it. I'm a 'swear not at all' type guy. Also, some of the rules were easy to break accidentally, and they had the right to change the rules on you and bind you to this vow to God to do whatever they chose. It was insane. Speaking with people who worked there, I got the impression that the took the issue of making a vow to God way to lightly.

 

[presidente]

I get the impression that sometimes nondenominational evangelicals, an even the denominational seeker-sensitive megachurch kind which doesn't tell you which denomination they are in, and you could go there for years without knowing... often say little to nothing about eschatology. Maybe they teach believe Jesus is coming back. Staying away from controversies, after a while, results in a congregation with little to no knowledge....gained from a pulpit at least... on these topics, and it becomes part of the church culture not to teach them. That is probably not true of all non-denominational mega churches, but it is something I have noticed.

 

[Dirtman]

I'm with ya on textus receptus. The Byzantine text is preferred.

I dont know why king james onlyists are so high on textus receptus, or King James himself.

At least the NKJ leaves textus receptus and uses the Byzantine text, repairing the error of the KJV.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Tell us in Detail, how You were Born Again ? ? ?

It's not about me, but Him. Have a blessed day.

 

[VCO]

Wassamatter VCO Can't handle the truth?

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

That is THREE, and therefore you have earned YOUR WAY TO My IGNORE LIST, and nothing you type will ever show up on my Screen.

Here is one verse you don't even know you Violated, and it is sin:

1 Timothy 5:1 (ESV)
1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brother

Bye, Bye.

 

[VCO]

It's not about me, but Him. Have a blessed day.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

You don't get it, do you ? ? ?

It has been my Experience, the only people who cannot explain BORN AGAIN, are those who are YET, to be BORN AGAIN. No, it is not what you may think, with all the Bells and Whistles. I will wait and tell you, after the Lord humbles you. The Lord had drive great sobing TEARS for hours, over my utter Sinfulness.

 

[VCO]

I dont know why king james onlyists are so high on textus rece ptus, or King James himself.

At least the NKJ leaves textus receptus and uses the Byzantine text, repairing the error of the KJV.

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.

I know this is extremely hard to read, but you need to read through the Original 1611 KJV PREFACE, which the changed shortly after the 1611 KJV came out. In that Original 1611 KJV Preface, their Translation Team, admitted IT was a Paraphrase Version, updated the language from 5 older English Versions, Correcting KNOWN ERRORS, and making sure it was the language variables THAT KING JAMES regularly SPOKE. That KNOWN ERRORS also means there Had to be UNKNOWN errors, still in that Version. That is a fact, but read it for yourself. I had to read it THREE TIMES, to make sure I understood it all.