GOD'S ULTIMATE PURPOSE FOR BELIEVERS

[tourist]

Previously I said: [For many years I heard the term “I am a forgiven sinner”, so that’s not poor grammar but poor beliefs on the part of many Christians.]

You said: Are you saying that Jesus did not die for our sins? Our sins are not forgiven?

Why are you twisting my words? Jesus did not die on the cross so that we could call ourselves "forgiven sinners". So, either we are adopted sons of God and heirs of the kingdom with Jesus Christ, or we are wallowing in our misery trying not to sin. Which one is it? [/QUOTE]
Why would Jesus object to those, whose sins that he died for, to call themselves forgiven sinners, especially since it was sin that was forgiven?

Your stance makes absolutely no sense. Of course, we are adopted sons of God and heirs of the kingdom with Jesus Christ but that was only made possible by the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.

You might want to read John 3:16 to get a better understanding in regard to forgiven sin. That verse may help you.

 

[tourist]

So, either we are adopted sons of God and heirs of the kingdom with Jesus Christ, or we are wallowing in our misery trying not to sin. Which one is it?

Paul had the same problem as he said that he does what he doesn't want to do and neglects to do what he should. He most likely was an adopted son of God nevertheless and an heir to the kingdom with Jesus Christ. Apparently, he was a forgiven sinner who had a struggle at times stumbling and falling, as we all do at times as well.

 

[tourist]

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." 1 Timothy 1:15

He most likely was a forgiven sinner. At least that's my take on the matter.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I'm really curious to know where exactly MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE came up with the idea that we shouldn't call ourselves "forgiven sinners." I have a pretty good idea it came from the hyper-grace or Word of Faith arena but I don't know of any specific teachers who teach it. This isn't the first time I've heard someone say this so it must be fairly popular.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Paul had the same problem as he said that he does what he doesn't want to do and neglects to do what he should. He most likely was an adopted son of God nevertheless and an heir to the kingdom with Jesus Christ. Apparently, he was a forgiven sinner who had a struggle at times stumbling and falling, as we all do at times as well.

Paul was giving us an example of what his life used to be trying to please God through his own efforts.

 

[tourist]

Paul was giving us an example of what his life used to be trying to please God through his own efforts.

I don;t think so. It looked like Paul had a bit of a guilt problem over occasionally committing a sin.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Paul was giving us an example of what his life used to be trying to please God through his own efforts.

No, he wasnt. He was giving an honest description of his life as a christian, as encouragement and admonishment to the Roman church. It really is sime reading comprehension; if one dont try and shoe horn ones own theology and ideas into the text.

 

[Magenta]

My goodness, I gave you scripture to prove what I'm saying, and you say I see God from a human perspective?

Yes, because calling God narcissistic if He does things for His glory totally misses the mark.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Yes, because calling God narcissistic if He does things for His glory totally misses the mark.

God does things in order to bring us to His presence because He loves. He is glorified when we accept our acceptance, enter into His presence and walk in love all the days of our lives. God being glorified just because misses the entire understanding that He is love and as such, He has and continues to give Himself away through Jesus Christ, His beloved.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

No, he wasnt. He was giving an honest description of his life as a christian, as encouragement and admonishment to the Roman church. It really is sime reading comprehension; if one dont try and shoe horn ones own theology and ideas into the text.

Read it again. He was speaking about two natures, the sinful nature of trying to please God and his failure to do so. You are reading into the text, or you have been taught wrongly. If Paul was what you say, then he was no example to us or no one else.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Read it again. He was speaking about two natures, the sinful nature of trying to please God and his failure to do so. You are reading into the text, or you have been taught wrongly. If Paul was what you say, then he was no example to us or no one else.

Ive read it many times. Note present tense through out the text. No past tenses used.
The only way that it becomes of "no example" is that you cant get passed your own thinking.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Seek and you shall find. I found an article at Matt McMillen's website titled "Christians Are Not Sinners." https://mattmcmillenministries.com/christians-are-not-sinners/

" 'I’m a sinner saved by grace!' This is a very popular thing to say, although not true. A more accurate statement for a Christian would be, 'I was a sinner saved by grace! Now I’m a righteous, blameless, holy child of God!' Here’s another incorrect declaration to apply to a believer: 'Hate the sin, love the sinner!' Why is this inaccurate? Because Christians are not sinners, at all. Sure, we might have sinful actions and attitudes, but our identity is exactly like God’s. We are a people of His very own nature. Peter tells the early church this same truth–who they actually are."​

Sound familiar.

According to McMillen's bio, he is " . . . a bestselling Christian author and minister of the New Covenant. His books and massive social media ministry has taught countless amounts of people their true identity in Christ."

That's what he leads with.

I'll have to do more seeking tomorrow. His YouTube channel has 2.4K subscribers which seems like a lot but I'm no expert on such things. It looks like he started posting videos 7 months ago. Seems like a big grace guy from what I can tell.

 

[markss]

You see God from a human perspective. God is the sum total of His attributes, not just one.
While it is true that when people promote themselves they do so generally to the detriment of others. But this is not true of God. Our highest estate and when we are most satisfied is when God is most glorified.
Was it narcissistic when God told Abraham that He would be his reward?

No, it was not narcissistic. God if fully aware that He is the best there is, and to give Himself is to give the best He can give! We benefit from realizing how ultimately good God is for us! We lose nothing when we give ourselves to Him.

Much love!

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

I don;t think so. It looked like Paul had a bit of a guilt problem over occasionally committing a sin.

Trying to please God on his own efforts proved to be futile, therefore Paul went on to say "Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then, on one hand, with my mind am serving the LAW OF GOD, but on the other with my flesh the law of sin." (Rom. 7:25). So this verse alone tells us that Paul was either speaking about his past before he came to Christ, or he was stating what it means to live by the law. So, since Paul was the greatest expositor of the grace of God, living by faith and with the righteousness of God imputed to him by faith.

Your point then proves to be in great error, otherwise, let's throw into the garbage all the epistles Paul wrote because they are nothing but lies according to your previous statements.

 

[Cameron143]

No, it was not narcissistic. God if fully aware that He is the best there is, and to give Himself is to give the best He can give! We benefit from realizing how ultimately good God is for us! We lose nothing when we give ourselves to Him.

Much love!

Thanks. It was a rhetorical question.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Ive read it many times. Note present tense through out the text. No past tenses used.
The only way that it becomes of "no example" is that you cant get passed your own thinking.

What was it that Paul taught day and night through his epistles? Wasn't living by faith, and not by the works of the law? Why did he get upset with the Galatians because they were trying to work out God's free gift of salvation and the gifts of the Spirit through the works of the law? Why didn't he tell them he was struggling just like them?

Sorry, but if I can't make this pass to you, you need to pray for revelation.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

I don;t think so. It looked like Paul had a bit of a guilt problem over occasionally committing a sin.

Paul is considered the greatest theologian and saint of all time, and you are trying to stick his face into the mud? Tell me what sins did Paul commit that is written in the scriptures?

 

[markss]

Paul was like all of us and at times committed sins -- wrong acts and deeds -- in his flesh. Thus he was like all of us a "sinner" in the flesh.

But, it is also true that no sin will get into heaven. All the sins that we commit as believers are forgiven through the blood of Christ. Thus God no longer views us as sinners (at our spirit level), but as saints and as sons of God.

I think the author of this thread is trying to tell us that out mindset and understanding of God's view of us is critical to how we live in this world. If we think God views us simply as dull, half-witted, sinners then we will tend to live that way. If we realize God views us as His children then we will tend to live that way.

He's given us a new birth as His children, and God our Father knows exactly who and what we are. His children. Righteous and Holy. He sees both our new creation, the spirit child of God, and the flesh-man we are being saved from.

He promises chastisement to His children because He knows we continue in the ways of the old man, the Adamic flesh, and need sometimes very forceful training to live His new way.

Much love!

 

[markss]

God's ultimate desire is to be one with Him in the beauty of holiness.

Just quoting this again because I like how you said it . . . and it's good to stay on topic . . .

Much love!

 

[tourist]

Paul is considered the greatest theologian and saint of all time, and you are trying to stick his face into the mud? Tell me what sins did Paul commit that is written in the scriptures?

He said that things that he did not want to do he did, and that which he wanted to do he didn't. He said that he was the chief sinner among sinners. The exact sins were not specified. He did say however that three times he pleaded with God to remove the thorn in his flesh. God declined and said that his grace was sufficient. Perhaps Paul suffered guilt. Can't say for sure.