GOD'S ULTIMATE PURPOSE FOR BELIEVERS

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

[For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.]

You quoted Phil. 2:13 but ignored the previous verse:

Philippians 2:12 (AMP) "Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ)."

[How would you know? Because I choose to walk by His promises rather than self-effort?]

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30). Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

I don't think his point was we don't need our minds renewed, but the distinction is who does the renewing. You seem to be saying it is by our own effort. His point was that it is done by God in us.

We renew our minds when we abide in Christ, stay on His word, and are obedient to what He reveals, no matter how small it may seem to be. Love one another is our response to His word, walking in righteousness is also a response to His word, obeying the truth, is a response to His word... I can go on...

 

[VARob]

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30).

No he's not.

Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

Saints are forgiven sinners, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

 

[crossnote]

[For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.]

You quoted Phil. 2:13 but ignored the previous verse:

Philippians 2:12 (AMP) "Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ)."

[How would you know? Because I choose to walk by His promises rather than self-effort?]

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30). Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

That's right, there are two sides to that coin. I am stessinng God's work and you are stressing man's.
I just happen to like giving God the glory rather than boasting "See what a good boy am I".

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30). Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

Ok, If it makes you feel better I am a forgiven saint! LOL
But I still agree with Paul...
(Eph 3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

But I guess you would say Paul is 'decimating the work of Christ'.

 

[Amosathar]

We renew our minds when we abide in Christ, stay on His word, and are obedient to what He reveals, no matter how small it may seem to be. Love one another is our response to His word, walking in righteousness is also a response to His word, obeying the truth, is a response to His word... I can go on...

Be careful in making judgements, from what people say or the words they use, to make a statement about their stance with God, only God knows the true state of someone's life.

None of what you said above is possible without God's help because even as believers it is contrary to our carnal nature that we are in a constant tug-o-war with to do what is right. With discipline and practice it gets easier, but is never as simple as you make it out to be.

If we had no opposition, then sure it would be both simple and easy, but the more we grow in Christ, the more of a threat we become to the enemy and the more attacks we may face. If you are going to speak about these things, do it in love, with understanding that each person's journey is different and sometimes harder than our own since we have no idea what battles they have had to face to make it to where they are. We also need to be aware that understanding scripture comes easier to some than it does to others so we should always be gracious when we try to communicate with others.

 

[crossnote]

God does work in us to will and to do His pleasure, but it's up to us to renew our minds.

Yet, even that renewal is in vain on our own...

John 15:5 (KJV) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Be careful in making judgements, from what people say or the words they use, to make a statement about their stance with God, only God knows the true state of someone's life.

None of what you said above is possible without God's help because even as believers it is contrary to our carnal nature that we are in a constant tug-o-war with to do what is right. With discipline and practice it gets easier, but is never as simple as you make it out to be.

If we had no opposition, then sure it would be both simple and easy, but the more we grow in Christ, the more of a threat we become to the enemy and the more attacks we may face. If you are going to speak about these things, do it in love, with understanding that each person's journey is different and sometimes harder than our own since we have no idea what battles they have had to face to make it to where they are. We also need to be aware that understanding scripture comes easier to some than it does to others so we should always be gracious when we try to communicate with others.

Be careful you don’t twist my words. I never said that we do it all in our own power. Without the Lord we can do nothing. (Jn 15:5).

 

[Amosathar]

Be careful you don’t twist my words. I never said that we do it all in our own power. Without the Lord we can do nothing. (Jn 15:5).

I never twisted your words, but it seems that is how you read it. In fact, if anything I am agreeing with you and reinforcing what you are saying. But you seemed to have missed the larger point of what I was trying to say.

 

[Ted01]

We renew our minds when we abide in Christ, stay on His word, and are obedient to what He reveals, no matter how small it may seem to be. Love one another is our response to His word, walking in righteousness is also a response to His word, obeying the truth, is a response to His word... I can go on...

My understanding is rather different.

WE don't do much of anything... walking in Righteousness or even Loving is not something that I cannot do.
Neither could the Israelites under the Law.
No, it's God working in us both to even Will or Obey.
And that is because of His Grace and Mercy and then through Christ Jesus & the Holy Spirit living in us.

Phil. 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

 

[VARob]

My understanding is rather different.

WE don't do much of anything...

If you don't renew your mind, it won't happen.

walking in Righteousness or even Loving is not something that I cannot do.
Neither could the Israelites under the Law.
No, it's God working in us both to even Will or Obey.
And that is because of His Grace and Mercy and then through Christ Jesus & the Holy Spirit living in us.

Phil. 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God DOES work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but He does not MAKE you do anything. Living as a Christian takes effort on our part. WE are to put off the old man and put on the new.

 

[Ted01]

If you don't renew your mind, it won't happen.


God DOES work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but He does not MAKE you do anything. Living as a Christian takes effort on our part. WE are to put off the old man and put on the new.

Good points all around... thank you.

Still, I can't even renew my mind, in my opinion. I rely on God to do that, and I pray about that daily.

God reveals to me areas that I need to work on. Then as awareness grows and conviction sets in, I
confess my sin/iniquity and ask God for understanding and the will and strength to change.
It is He that renews my mind.
He might lead to a pastor that speaks about the subject or open my eyes to His Word... might even bring
a brother/sister in Christ to give a word of knowledge. Each time/issue is different with me.

But it's He that does the heavy work.

Matt. 11:28-30 (ESV) 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

My understanding is rather different.

WE don't do much of anything... walking in Righteousness or even Loving is not something that I cannot do.
Neither could the Israelites under the Law.
No, it's God working in us both to even Will or Obey.
And that is because of His Grace and Mercy and then through Christ Jesus & the Holy Spirit living in us.

Phil. 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

You speak like an unbeliever. God's love has been poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 5:5). Jesus commanded us to love the unlovable and to minister to the broken-hearted.

Luke 6:35–36 (LSB) “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Highest; for He Himself is kind to the ungrateful and evil.
36 “Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

God does not expect you to do this on your own because we can't, but the Holy Spirit has come to empower us to accept His love for us, and to love another even as He has loved us (Jn 13:34).

If you stop looking into yourself and start looking to Jesus, who is the author and the finisher (or perfecter) of your faith (Heb. 12:2).

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

I never twisted your words, but it seems that is how you read it. In fact, if anything I am agreeing with you and reinforcing what you are saying. But you seemed to have missed the larger point of what I was trying to say.

Please explain.

 

[crossnote]

Some people feel it is their duty to go around correcting other believers and even contradicting their profession of faith, all the while acting like they are 'just trying to help'.