GOD'S ULTIMATE PURPOSE FOR BELIEVERS

[Runningman]

Most Christians have not been taught to understand that salvation is far more than being forgiven. To be a forgiven sinner is an insult to God's grace and His eternal intention for His people that are called by His name.

That’s not accurate. Christians are still sinners, but also saints. Writers in the New Testament encourage them not to sin when they did and those who were walking upright were told to continue doing so.

As you can see below, these brothers and sisters in Christ were still sinning. That means they are sinners and weren’t living by the Spirit. That’s because there’s a difference between justification and sanctification.

To be 100% sanctified would be to be 100% in the image of Christ. To be 100% in the in the image of Christ would be, in effect, having a character that is equally sinless to God’s character. There are no people equal in sinlessness to God. There are only those sinners who are forgiven.

Again, there’s a major difference between being justified by Christ and sanctification.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Does Mission Impossible say this: that a born again person is literally Jesus Christ? If so, can you refer to that particular post?

Not in those words. He's not dumb enough to come out and say it but that's ultimately what he's getting at. He's said repeatedly (against scripture) we shouldn't refer to ourselves as "forgiven sinners." This is as hyper-grace and Word of Faith as it gets. Just go back and read between the lines. Maybe if you're not familiar with the false teaching he's spouting you wouldn't catch it, but it's pretty obvious.

 

[markss]

Not in those words. He's not dumb enough to come out and say it but that's ultimately what he's getting at. He's said repeatedly (against scripture) we shouldn't refer to ourselves as "forgiven sinners." This is as hyper-grace and Word of Faith as it gets. Just go back and read between the lines. Maybe if you're not familiar with the false teaching he's spouting you wouldn't catch it, but it's pretty obvious.

I think our real identity is that we were sinners, and now we are children of God, awaiting the redemption of our flesh, where sin lives.

Much love!

 

[IloveYeshua]

Most Christians have not been taught to understand that salvation is far more than being forgiven. To be a forgiven sinner is an insult to God's grace and His eternal intention for His people that are called by His name. John 13-17 (see Jn 14:20 as a "teaser") reveals God's purpose for believers which we can participate in at all times. God's ultimate desire is to be one with Him in the beauty of holiness. Still, religion and legalism are making an indent that deceives and destroys God's intention for us to be one with Him through Yeshua, our Messiah by the agency of the Holy Spirit.

Have you ever tried to be silent before the Lord and learn by experience how much He loves you? I'm talking about Father's unconditional love that yearns to have fellowship with us through His Spirit. Rev. 3:20 still applies.

John 14:20 (LSV) "In that day you will know that I [am] in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you."

Do you know who you are?

View attachment 245011

Brother, thank you for the nice post, It is rare to find people who know about John 14:20 and realize what it means.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
The verse is simply wonderful it defies normal understanding, and take some time to digest and understand the wonderful implications.
and i would add;
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
In red are the words if Christ and they are true!

You have been blessed with the truth brother.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Brother, thank you for the nice post, It is rare to find people who know about John 14:20 and realize what it means.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
The verse is simply wonderful it defies normal understanding, and take some time to digest and understand the wonderful implications.
and i would add;
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
In red are the words if Christ and they are true!

You have been blessed with the truth brother.

What an incredible encouragement brother. May the Lord richly bless you!

That’s not accurate. Christians are still sinners, but also saints. Writers in the New Testament encourage them not to sin when they did and those who were walking upright were told to continue doing so.

As you can see below, these brothers and sisters in Christ were still sinning. That means they are sinners and weren’t living by the Spirit. That’s because there’s a difference between justification and sanctification.

To be 100% sanctified would be to be 100% in the image of Christ. To be 100% in the in the image of Christ would be, in effect, having a character that is equally sinless to God’s character. There are no people equal in sinlessness to God. There are only those sinners who are forgiven.

Again, there’s a major difference between being justified by Christ and sanctification.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?

I didn't say we don't sin anymore, but we are not sinners like the world. Sinners habitually sin from morning to night, but we are called saints, we are called sons of God, and beloved. If we say we are sinners, we are calling God a liar for having left us in this miserable state. We have the Holy Spirit who is the pledge of our inheritance, and we are seated in heavenly places in Christ.

Not everyone is a babe in Christ. Let's not take the word of God out of its intended context.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I think our real identity is that we were sinners, and now we are children of God, awaiting the redemption of our flesh, where sin lives.

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." 1 Timothy 1:15

Not was, am.

 

[Runningman]

I didn't say we don't sin anymore, but we are not sinners like the world.

You’re opening post saying that to be a forgiven sinner is an insult to God’s grace.
That means your point is that to not insult God’s grace we must claim to be sinless. Unless you’re walking that back now, if so then that’s good to see.

Sinners habitually sin from morning to night, but we are called saints, we are called sons of God, and beloved.

Christians can sin all day and all night, too.

If we say we are sinners, we are calling God a liar for having left us in this miserable state. We have the Holy Spirit who is the pledge of our inheritance, and we are seated in the heavenly places in Christ.

As far as I am aware, this is mostly unbiblical. Read what Paul said about being a saint living in sin in Romans 7.l and let’s be clear about something: it isn’t our natural bodies that are born again, it’s our spirit. You must exercise your self-control to bring your body into submission.

Not everyone is a babe in Christ. Let's not take the word of God out of its intended context.

A babe in Christ is someone that’s worldly and acting like a mere human. Perhaps most of the church are still babes.

 

[Runningman]

I didn't say we don't sin anymore, but we are not sinners like the world. Sinners habitually sin from morning to night…

Another question, if you don’t mind, so I can be clearer about your mindset.

Which of these statements comes closer to your view, even if neither is exactly right?

A. It is NOT necessary to believe in God to be moral and/or have good values.

B. It is necessary to believe in God to be moral and/or have good values.

 

[oyster67]

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." 1 Timothy 1:15

Not was, am.

1 Timothy 1:15 Context

12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Amazing how much light a little context can shed.

 

[Runningman]

1 Timothy 1:15 Context

12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Amazing how much light a little context can shed.

We must accept that Paul was telling the truth about himself when he referred to himself as the chiefest of sinners.

 

[oyster67]

A. It is NOT necessary to believe in God to be moral and/or have good values.

True if we are being viewed through the eyes of men, but none are good in God's eyes unless viewed through the blood of His Son.

B. It is necessary to believe in God to be moral and/or have good values.

It is necessary to believe in God to obtain salvation. Prior to and excluding that, all our righteousness is as filthy rags.

 

[VARob]

We've been reborn into a child of God, and childen of God are not sinners. Yet we still live in our flesh body, and have not come to control it completely.

Do you still sin? If you do, you're still a sinner.

 

[oyster67]

We must accept that Paul was telling the truth about himself when he referred to himself as the chiefest of sinners.

And the context makes clear that He is talking about His state before he obtained mercy.

1 Timothy 1:15 Context

12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[ResidentAlien]

We must accept that Paul was telling the truth about himself when he referred to himself as the chiefest of sinners.

After he was reborn he probably wasn't literally the chief of sinners; but the point is Paul referred to himself as a sinner and even called himself the "chief sinner," out of humility.

 

[oyster67]

Do you still sin? If you do, you're still a sinner.

That is the message of the accuser of the brethren.

 

[VARob]

And the context makes clear that He is talking about His state before he obtained mercy.

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul says "am," not "was." There is no doubt that Paul sinned FAR less after becoming a Christian. But he acknowledged that he still sinned (Rom 7). And as stated before, it was a statement reflecting Paul's humility. The longer a person is a Christian, the more he comes to understand how much he does fall short.

 

[VARob]

That is the message of the accuser of the brethren.

It's logic 101.

 

[Cameron143]

After he was reborn he probably wasn't literally the chief of sinners; but the point is Paul referred to himself as a sinner and even called himself the "chief sinner," out of humility.

On the contrary, understanding the true extent of sin and being more intimate with his own sin as compared to what he could know about the sin of others, we should all perhaps see ourselves as the chiefest among sinners.

 

[oyster67]

That means your point is that to not insult God’s grace we must claim to be sinless.

Wrong. He acknowledges that we still sin. That does not mean we are still sinners. We are covered by the Blood. That makes a difference (to some of us).

Unless you’re walking that back

He doesn't have to walk anything back.

 

[VARob]

Wrong. He acknowledges that we still sin. That does not mean we are still sinners.

You equate "sinner" with "unsaved."
I equate "sinner" with someone who sins.

We are covered by the Blood. That makes a difference (to some of us).

Agreed! You could have left off the snark "to some of us," though.