Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[CS1]

Thank you

You are most welcome. And will say I do respect you and your position. I like pithy, you qualify.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes they have.

There ya go, exactly what I have witnessed in smaller gatherings within pentecostalism, Chaos & Confusion in self glorification (Sad)

 

[Subhumanoidal]

You became a christian through the Pentecostal movement, you and half of America, they are one of the few churches that are saving souls. All Africa has emerged out of the dark ages through the witness of the Pentecostalists ... they are now sending missionaries to England. India is opening it's doors after all these centuries. China is being swept by the Holy Spirit.

I see the same things you do in the western Pentecostal movement, I think it is important to not desert the field but to stay and fight.

There are plenty of good balanced Pentecostal assemblies ... nobody has to chase wildfire.

Africa was "saved" through the Word of Faith cult that has infiltrated charismatic churches decades ago.
You move under the false assumption that the promise of believing wealth into existence to people dying from poverty equates to genuine conversion. I don't see it that way.
These groups also drive many Out of church and away from faith due to false promises and the issues I mentioned in my post.

Also you fly the flag that if something is a little right that makes it good. I also don't see it that way. If you give directions to someone and you give a left instead of a right, that will mislead them.

So I'm not going to go with the notion that because they evoke false conversions, or even if genuine in some cases, that then bringing them into a guilt and fear ridden church where they perpetually chase God (not fires) and never catch Him as a good thing.
That only plants in shallow soil and the plants whither away.

 

[CS1]

Africa was "saved" through the Word of Faith cult that has infiltrated charismatic churches decades ago.
You move under the false assumption that the promise of believing wealth into existence to people dying from poverty equates to genuine conversion. I don't see it that way.
These groups also drive many Out of church and away from faith due to false promises and the issues I mentioned in my post.

Also you fly the flag that if something is a little right that makes it good. I also don't see it that way. If you give directions to someone and you give a left instead of a right, that will mislead them.

So I'm not going to go with the notion that because they evoke false conversions, or even if genuine in some cases, that then bringing them into a guilt and fear ridden church where they perpetually chase God (not fires) and never catch Him as a good thing.
That only plants in shallow soil and the plants whither away.

Ok, Africa was saved by the word of faith cult? Then they were not saved? Yet we know full well that Voodoo is very real there. And cultural practices affect how one minister there. have you served in Africa? have you been there? because Nigeria has seen a revival and much help from the local church in the United States. We have 10 % of our church are from Africa and they go with other and minister all the time. We have built 5 wells to bring water to the African people. many of them are doctors in our church and have and highly educated and pentecostal.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You are most welcome. And will say I do respect you and your position. I like pithy, you qualify.

Good. mutual respect brother.

 

[notuptome]

This is clearly eisegesis. There is absolutely no reason to think this is what Paul was getting at without reading that idea back into the passage. It is a very anachronistic interpretation, assuming Paul thought like 19th or 20th century cessationists, when there is no evidence for that way of thinking in the first place. The 'eye of flesh' supports carnal interpretations such as those that are averse to the power of God.

If you look in the book at other passages, in I Corinthians 1, Paul mentions themes he would address in later chapters like 12-14, utterance and knowledge. He writes, "So that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.' In this book, a theme is looking forward to a certain eschatological event, in chapter 1, the coming of Christ, and in chapter 15, the resurrection and transformation that occurs 'at His coming.' This is what Paul is looking forward to in the book. It makes sense to interpretation I Corinthians 13 in light of these facts, especially since Paul wishes they come behind in no spiritual gift while waiting for Christ's return...when the gifts he was going to address in the passage include words of knowledge, tongues, and prophecy.



The issue is not whether our generation, the world outside, is evil and adulterous. Wickedness abounds. The issue is whether you should apply that verse toward saints who believe in spiritual gifts to somehow imply that all who hold to a biblical views on spiritual gifts are evil and adulterous by virtue oftheir holding to these views.


Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were the ones to whom God revealed Himself by signs and wonders. Now God reveals Himself through His word which He values equal to Himself.



You sound skeptical, and the tone of many of your posts comes off as scoffing. I hope the latter sentence does not apply to you. It is not a Biblical statement either. If it were, Paul would have remained in unbelief.



That last statement, in particular, is strange, but does explain your approach to Bible interpretation.

You create a false dichotomy. Spiritual gifts are not at odds with evangelism. The Bible indicates that we have need of the various members of the body of Christ, including those who prophecy and those who speak in tongues. One part of a body does not say to another, "I have not need of thee' and you should not have that attitude toward other members of the body of Christ who have these gifts. See I Corinthians 12.

You have the misconception that tongues have not ceased. The Holy Spirit was not given by Christ to bestow gifts to men. He was given to bring men to a saving knowledge of Christ.

Your theology is all about you and only a passing mention of Christ. You have it all backwards. I cannot stop you from going on in unbelief. It is the sign of the times.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Please rip out 1 Corinthians out of your bible. Because nowhere does it say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped.

But for the sake of good convo, I will ask you what were the gifts of the Holy Spirit for found in 1cor chapter 12 and the Gifts of Christ found in Eph 4:7-12?

It does say that three will end. I guess you have better cut those verses out of your bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

if you have an outlier then it behooves you to present it.

The good thing is we kept studying and searching the word...

Very Encouraging, I believe I can present {outlier?} the Biblical
answer for my view in the continualist/cessationist debate...
------------------------------------------
Paul Christiansen said: "Context Is Vital

So, firstly, we must examine the Scriptures being quoted by teachers who are opposing the supernatural move of the Spirit to see the context, to whom and to what purpose they were written. Next we need to see how we can recognise {sp?} false prophets, teaching, signs and wonders manifest in these modern times, and whether they are consistent with the Scriptures that are being quoted by those opposing the current manifestation of the supernatural gifts of the Spirit.

But, he also states:

"There is no way that a person who has no experience in the spiritual gifts can know the difference between the genuine and misuse of spiritual gifts. Because of this, we can totally ignore any comments from Cessationists!"

Wait, I am defined as a cessationist because I oppose
The Supernatural Moving Of The Holy Spirit?
Then, Exactly WHAT should I call:

Baptism "BY" The Holy Spirit, The Washing Of
Regeneration, Forgiveness of sins, The Circumcision of the
heart Without hands, Translation Into The Body Of CHRIST,
And, Receiving The Indwelling Holy Spirit, Which Is God's
Operation For His Eternal Salvation, According To His HOLY Word?

I certainly am NOT opposed to That "Supernatural Moving
Of The Holy Spirit." So, therefore, I Cannot be defined as
a "cessationist"? Oh, what he {PC} Really Meant {under the
Assumption} "the gifts are active Today, Under GRACE,
is that:

"I oppose The Gifts of tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge,
and healings, FOR TODAY!" Correct? Then, yes, in that assumable
case, I am a "cessationist." Thanks to PC for plainly clearing
that part up for me.

Now, since PC is going to Totally Ignore this comment...

You and others,
have not provided from the word of God where it states the gifts
of the Holy Spirit are not for today

...I suppose the following is for CS1 and BlackPowderDuelist,
and Any Other interested parties who will Not totally ignore it, eh?

I apologize, this is too long...to be continued...

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

God's PERFECT Word Has Come

Let us now "back up a step" then about: "...we must examine
the Scriptures..."? Now, that is a given, but, How About:

(1) IF God's Pure, Inspired, Infallible, And Profitable Word is NOT
"That Which Is PERFECT, And Has Come," then pray tell, what is it?

a) IF IT Has NOT Come, THEN "IT Does Not Qualify" for "ceasing​

the above four gifts," Correct? Yeah, ridiculous, I know, since:​

​

b) EVERYBODY Agrees IT Has Come! But, now IS IT Imperfect?​

IF SO, THEN "IT Does Not Qualify" for "ceasing the above​

four gifts," Correct?​

​

Conclude whatever you will, Precious friend(s)...​

And, IF that is True, Then I had Certainly Better NOT trust it, eh?
And, NO ONE Else "can trust it Either, AND NO ONE CAN BE SAVED"?
{In which case, "continualist/cessationist" debate, IS moot!}, Correct?

"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing By The Word Of God!"

FurtherMore!:
I Certainly had better not "believe God's PERFECT Word Is PURE," eh?

"The Words of The LORD Are PURE Words: as silver tried in a
furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou Shalt keep them,
O LORD, Thou Shalt PRESERVE THEM from this generation for ever."
(Psalms 12 : 6-7 KJB!)
+
What then happens IF I Do NOT believe God When HE Teaches:

"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy
Name for Thy Lovingkindness and for Thy Truth: for Thou Hast
MAGNIFIED Thy Word ABOVE All Thy Name." (Psalms 138 : 2 KJB!)

Certainly, NOBODY believes God Would MAGNIFY something
IMPERFECT ABOVE All Of HIS HOLY NAME! Or would they?
{Glad I RAN from my "cradle religion" who claimed THEIR
church/tradition/magesterium was EQUAL to God's HOLY Word!

So, now "according to gifted men's experience, I should "take
THEIR word"...

...Instead of God's PERFECT Word? "That Which IS PERFECT"
for my "faith And practice"?

Further Biblical Confirmation - God's Contexts, And:

(2) Baptisms, According To "The PERFECT Word, That Has Come,"
Which we should be prayerfully And Carefully "studying" Today?:

Conclusions of Three (3) baptisms Summary
{Did not PC say: "Context Is Vital"?}:

In God's Context of HIS Prophetic program, under The Law,
to Israel, HE Requires water "baptism of repentance For The
Remission of sin," where, upon the obedience of the Jewish
recipient, CHRIST "Baptizes said recipient WITH The Holy Spirit,"
Pouring Out That Spirit for "powers, signs, and wonders," {healing
Everyone, raising from the dead, speaking in tongues, drinking
poison, handling snakes, etc.}

Q: Are these TWO "baptisms" for the Body of CHRIST, Today?
A: NO, and "Context AGAIN, is Vital"?:

In God's Context of HIS Mystery Program, Under God's PURE GRACE,
For The Body Of CHRIST, There Is Only ONE Baptism! It Is

----------========= "BY" The Holy Spirit,

Identifying, or Spiritually Immersing/Placing the "New-Born
believer" INTO The ONE Body {Spiritual Organism}, Seated In
Heaven!

The FULL "study" is available here: Today's ONE Bible Baptism

Again, If any Precious friend agrees "Context Is Vital" then,
Please study prayerfully And Carefully God's Contexts Of TWO
Different Programs, here: TWO Gospels, and here: Distinctions

My conclusion has been for many years that Mixing These Up
has been the Main Source of untold Disastrous Confusion in
The Severely Divided Body Of CHRIST, Very weak, and POWERless!

And, Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
------------------------------------------------
Further Biblical Confirmation:
(3) healings/Israel's National priesthood? In God's PERFECT Word?
See Sections #4, #9, And #10 here: 12 baptisms

Further Biblical Confirmation:
(4) healings in Paul's Early GRACE ministry, but why not later?
In God's PERFECT Word?

​

a) Yes, Paul had the "signs of an apostle," especially​

raising the dead! (Acts 20 : 9-10 KJB!), And,​

healings (Acts 14 : 8-10; Acts 19 : 11-12; Acts 28 : 8 KJB!)​

​

(b) So, WHY this, after Israel "fell," And Paul declared:​

​

"Be it known therefore unto you, that The Salvation of ​

God Is Sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it."​

(Acts 28 : 28 KJB!)​

​

(c) WHY Does Paul NO LONGER "have The "gift of​

The Holy Spirit, of healing" everyone?​

(Philippians 2 : 25-28; 2 Timothy 4 : 20 KJB!)​

​

(d) WHY Does "Paul himself have an infirmity," ​

asking God THREE times for Healing? And, ​

hearing God's GRACIOUS/Powerful Answer?:​

Further Biblical Confirmation!
(5) Does God Have a New Revelation About HIS
"Power" {#3 in link below...} for us Gentiles, who
HE Exhorts To: "walk By FAITH, NOT by sight {power signs}"
(2 Corinthians 5 : 7 KJB!)?

I believe so, According To The Scriptural "infirmities"
study here: A GRACE Word Before Great GRACE Departure!

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Blessed!!

 

[Dino246]

It does say that three will end. I guess you have better cut those verses out of your bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

WILL end (future), not HAVE ended (past).

 

[CS1]

You have the misconception that tongues have not ceased. The Holy Spirit was not given by Christ to bestow gifts to men. He was given to bring men to a saving knowledge of Christ.

Your theology is all about you and only a passing mention of Christ. You have it all backwards. I cannot stop you from going on in unbelief. It is the sign of the times.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Guess You think Jesus lied when HE said YOu shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you to be MY witnesses. YOU are just a hateful person as always and a troll.

 

[CS1]

It does say that three will end. I guess you have better cut those verses out of your bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

where? Please you me where it says they have ceased? because it doesn't say that in those verses I can paste them again for you are reading some other kind of new testament? Because my KJV doesn't say that. Are you using a JW Bible?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Here is my book that shows the difference between signs and wonders produced by the Holy Spirit in support of the Gospel of Christ, and the false signs and wonders you are talking about in your post.

yeah im just saying miraculous works don’t prove anything our faith built by accepting his teachings does

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?

and in thy name have cast out devils?

and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one could do a miracle in Jesus name , and not be operating and speaking of God . What defines Gods children in this world is their actions and behavior towards others . We don’t need to have the gospel proven to us by a miracle we need to let the gospel into our belief meaning the things he taught because the things he taught are what this is made of

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭

Satans work in the world is to get us away from believing the gospel.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan works to blind us even as believers by distorting it and making the gospel something else making it not what Jesus preached a deception claiming to be truth that may even deceive the elect

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

miracles will be one of the deceptions within the church in the world is my only point there , a miracle doesn’t mean it’s a man of God. There are spiritual powers we don’t understand in this world empowered by Satan who holds authority for a time and has created an alternate gospel that’s based on these kinds of doctrines rather than the gospel

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭

Within the worldly church there would be the one false shepherds leading people astray from the true gospel creating fable and confusion about the truth . Of Satan can’t get us to say I don’t believe , he is going to distort the truth we accept and cause us to reject the true gospel

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭


Importantly these prophecies were written almost 2000 years ago and we’ve long been corrupted by these false doctrines there’s truth and the true church yet it’s scattered across the world

there’s a world of dark deception and a lot of it calls itself Christianity but it’s distorted from the truth .

and then There’s the light of the world. The word of truth that gives us life Which Jesus preached and sent to all
People who would believe even though they may not see a miracle , but they believe by faith the message of Gods begotten who died and rose

My belief and I could be wrong who knows , just my own thought is that a miracle isn’t going to make an unbeliever , believe , but a believer may see a miracle later on by faith

I think the early church it was imperative to establish the gospel in the world when Christ left for heaven , there were so Many eye witnesses to these things that it’s lasted 2000 years when many have tried to eliminate and discredit it

faith I think has to come from the word of God the gospel hearing it and believing

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

I will when I get time read your link there I’m sure there are some differences my only point was that miracles aren’t where the proof lies , but in believers loving others in his ways and name because they believe what they haven’t seen

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes the devil can bring fire down from heaven mebbe, but he can't open the eyes of the blind. if he could do stuff like that he would have copied Christ and the apostle

learn

a good tree produces good fruit
an evil tree produces evil fruit

Jesus said this in relation to the charge by the Pharisees that He did His miracles by beelzebub.

it doesn’t say he is only going to pull fire from heaven it says many false prophets and Christs will do any powerful
And deceiving signs , I’m not sure why opening a blind mans eyes couldn’t possibly be one

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:22‬ ‭

is say also the purpose of making the statement. Pull fire from heaven is definitely Satans imitation of Gods power also that’s what Elijah the prophet did during his ministry.



I’m not sure where the blind man part comes in but my point is that a miracle , a sign or wonder doesn’t prove anything. Regardless of what type of wonders signs or miracles Satan does to deceive the world

people waiting for the proof of a miracle worker might be deceived along with the others as they see his miracles , including even fire from the sky

“And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:13-15‬ ‭

I’m not sure how limited his power is to be could be your right maybe he couldn’t open the blind mans eyes I guess that’s more of an opinion that can differ because there’s no scripture

learn this ?

“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:15-

yes thier fruits indeed I agree I don’t think a fruit is a miracle working but the fruits of the gospel the fruits of righteousness is how we know men kind of my point we know someone’s of God because of how they act and treat others not because they worked a wonderful sign

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

By their fruits not thier moraculois works done in his name

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even workers of iniquity had done many wonderful works in his name , driven out devils in his name , prophesied in his name yet , he never knew them that worked iniquity .

Satan has power on earth I don’t pretend to know his limits so you could be right but I agree with you men are known by the fruit the gospel produces in our life

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Have you ever seen a tongue followed by an interpretation in church?

Sure I have, I’ve seen a lot of things and I’m in no way saying the gifts have ceased not at all . I’m saying the church is lacking faith to see those things being that we are so divided and scattered in our belief of the gospel

the gifts of God are irrevocable and he gives gifts every time someone receives the holy spirit even today Godnis empowering a believer with gifts given for the edification of the church.

I believe we’re so divided that when someone has a gift and begins to excercise the gift others seem to have a certain dostain or want to reject the person . To me it’s as simple as the many differing ideas we all have of doctrine it’s hard to agree on anything even though it’s all written down for us to learn and grow in together

but I don’t know it seems we’re lacking faith because we’re lacking true doctrine to me but I’m no one special or appointed just another believer discussing things in a forum that matter to me

I believe the gifts are being left in used because we lack the gospel of the kingdom because we rarely hear it often it becomes an argument about the cross eliminating the word that preceded it and offered salvation

it seems like faith and the gospel go hand in hand and when we lack faith miracle power isn’t prevalent

 

[Lookupnotback]

I have never even uttered anything prophetic on these boards and you are talking about my demonic delusions?

That is wild

Hour not a pentecostalist/charismatic?-)

 

[Lookupnotback]

Regarding the John MacArthur video you link here, I agree with him that the word of God must be interpreted properly. I would disagree on a number of lesser issue. One is the idea that one verse has one interpretation. It is pretty clear from scripture that this is not the case. God called both the tribe of Ephraim and Christ His Son out of Egypt, for example. Some prophetic statements had a short-term application and also a broader Messianic meaning. Deuteronomy 18 had a section that applies to prophets in general and in particular to That Prophet, the Lord Jesus Christ. Israel was required to hear prophets, but especially the Prophet like unto Moses. The Israelites were to stone certain offenders, but a verse about putting away the evil among you also applies to dealing with sin in the church. The apostles did not follow John MacArthur's narrow principle in the way they interpreted scripture as is obvious from the text of scripture.

John MacArthur has had his own shortcomings when it comes to hermeneutics related to the topic of this thread. I have not read his 2012 or 2013 book on the subject. But his 1990's cessationist-promoting book was eisegesis. Like he says in the video, people can have wrong interpretations because of presupposition. His argument was based on presupposition. If one does not presuppose that for some reason the teachings of New Testament scripture on spiritual gifts are supposed to be gone by now, there is no reason to accept his argument. His argument basically boiled down to the idea that because God did miracles at certain time periods in the past, He will not do so today. Stripped of all the verbiage, it is not a reasonable argument. Scripture on the subject does not cease to be true because of how he clustered God's miracles.... pre-Pentecost at that. We live in a different era from the patterns he described in the book, this era after the Spirit has begun to be poured out upon all flesh.

I did not hear JM make this argument, but someone else at the conference his church hosted which promoted his book argued that II Timothy 3:16 was an argument against the contemporary role of the gift of prophecy. This is clearly poor hermeneutics.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

If we consider the original intent, this was written during a time when prophecy was active. Don't we accept that II Timothy 4 is prophetically inspired? If revelation ended when Paul wrote 3:17 there, then chapter 4 would not be inspired. Neither would the book of Revelation be inspired.

The way they were interpreting the verse displayed a lack of reading comprehension, also. The verse does not say that scripture is all that is given...that the man of God may be... thorouthly furnished. Rather, it says all scripture is given.... etc. This passage does not say that 'scripture is all you need.' If the passage is used to say that you don't need anything because you have scripture, and therefore you do not need prophecy-- which other scripture indicates is profitable and needful to the church, why not apply that same sort of 'reasoning to other things.'

If you can say you don't need spiritual gifts because you have the Bible because of this verse, why not say you don't need love because scripture is all we need, or you don't need preaching or teaching because scripture is all you need.

But the passage does not say that scripture is all you need.

JM has a set of presuppositions about the role of scripture and what he thinks 'sola scriptura' means. In order for that to be true, scriptures like I Corinthians 12 have to no longer be true and valid for the church today, but he does not have any other scripture that cancels out those other passages to present.

He also interpreted 'that which is perfect' to refer to the eternal state in his interpretation of I Corinthians 13 in his 1990's book.

Regarding the video, MacArthur only half knows what he is talking about sometimes when it comes to this topic. I would guess the man who said the Lord gave him his life verse because he was born in a year that corresponded to the verse probably did mean that as a method of hermenuetics. If he did, the host and his wife may have comically been pointing out the flaw of that type of reasoning in an indirect manner. Not everything on a talk show on these networks is intended as hermeneutics. In my experience with Charismatics and Pentecostals is that 'Bible roulette' is not typical behavior. Maybe I have heard of it once from an individual, not from the pulpit. But John MacArthur is no stranger to straw men when it comes to this subject.

Sigh, it is hard to breath coming in the room behind you for all the straw dust you stir up into the air....all is see here is your ego and not humbly interpreting the word or reading all of it to understand the nature of your Creator....i mean honestly, your going to try and imply love is not part of the whole plan? That is an extremely foolish example to try and theorize into a reality in a lame attempt to discredit one who teaches the word’s actual meaning vs your emotional trip’n release for mankind, like really? No one in their tight mind would ever imply God is not love, Perfect love actually.....and you chase after doctrines of demons to build up your ego. You need to repent as you are heading to hell’s flames twisting God’s words in such ways.

 

[Lookupnotback]

Occasionally, encounter people who really like John MacArthur who seem to lack any ability to reason through a text of scripture who seem to post more from rhetoric and emotion who are light on well-reasoned arguments. Maybe they like him to do their thinking for them. I have encountered people like this who liked Rebecca Brown books and also back in the day with people who followed Arnold Murray and his strange teachings.

I would encourage you not to be like that, to interact with the posts directed toward you and to prayerfully meditate on what the scriptures presented to you mean.

You are standing in the gaps of scripture and God’s history to build and emotional tower built on emotional lies and Johnny Mac is mislead on his understanding of scripture? Hahaha....oh please do continue with your fallacies of emotionalism’s seducing lies as they pile up to the heaven’s your sins against the word and the Holy Spirit, we certainly are in the end times of men building their own ideals to serve themselves, shame on you!

 

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You are most welcome. And will say I do respect you and your position. I like pithy, you qualify.

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?

 

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Sure I have, I’ve seen a lot of things and I’m in no way saying the gifts have ceased not at all . I’m saying the church is lacking faith to see those things being that we are so divided and scattered in our belief of the gospel

the gifts of God are irrevocable and he gives gifts every time someone receives the holy spirit even today Godnis empowering a believer with gifts given for the edification of the church.

I believe we’re so divided that when someone has a gift and begins to excercise the gift others seem to have a certain dostain or want to reject the person . To me it’s as simple as the many differing ideas we all have of doctrine it’s hard to agree on anything even though it’s all written down for us to learn and grow in together

but I don’t know it seems we’re lacking faith because we’re lacking true doctrine to me but I’m no one special or appointed just another believer discussing things in a forum that matter to me

I believe the gifts are being left in used because we lack the gospel of the kingdom because we rarely hear it often it becomes an argument about the cross eliminating the word that preceded it and offered salvation

it seems like faith and the gospel go hand in hand and when we lack faith miracle power isn’t prevalent

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?