Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[luigi]

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I think the operative Word everyone seems to be underestimating is "BELIEVE". Who here does not put their confidence (belief) in money for their everyday being? Answer: We all do. As such we are all currently double minded in our beliefs, and because of being so, we then do not fully BELIEVE in Christ. Remember, Christ did say: take no money on your travels, and don't worry about what you will eat or what you will wear, because your Father will take care of you. Who here fully believes this to act accordingly? Not me currently, I'll tell you that much.
The good news here for those of us who persevere through the forthcoming day of the Lord which is in conjunction with the great tribulation that appears to have commenced in various parts of the world now is that there will soon be an awakening (a birth) from the travailing woman (which woman I believe represents our current status of being double minded), that will come to a close, sometime around the end of the beasts 1,260 days in power. The male child I believe represents the singularly minded individual having BELIEF solely in Christ, and therefore no longer working for money/mammon (Micah 5:7), who shall then do the miracles, and greater miracles than those Christ did (Micah 7:16).

Micah 5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the Lord, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.

 

[Aidan1]

How many Pentecostal prophecies have you heart where the speaker has said, "Thus says the Lord"? Isn't that the same thing? What about the person who comes up to us and says, "The Lord has given me a word for you." Or "I got a dream from the Lord". Does this say that the whole Pentecostal and Charismatic movements are heretical, or is it the individual who thinks he has a word from the Lord, when he might not have? I haven't done a close study of Montanism. I suspect that most of the literature about it has been written by those who believe it to be heretical. Literature written by Montanists themselves might be difficult to find, seeing that the RCC would have destroyed most of it. Maybe there are copies in some dark vault in the Vatican, titled "Hell's Corner"!

It is interesting that I read the first volume of the works of Arminius, and I was surprised to see that most of what he wrote was consistent with Scripture. Yet, many have labelled him as a heretic. He said that he was being constantly slandered by Calvinists who were telling blatant lies about him and his teaching. I discovered that he never had anyone burned at the stake as Calvin did, nor did he drown any Anabaptists as the English Calvinists did.

And talking about the Anabaptists: apart from the minority lunatic fringe in that movement (what's new in the Charismatic movement?), they were little different from modern Baptists. Most Anabaptists who were drowned were killed merely because they rejected infant baptism in favour of believers' baptism. The lunatic fringe element of the movement did not threaten the established church in the same way.

So far I know through the pentecostal movement the teaching about the baptising with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues started. Before 1900 you cant find this teaching in the whole
Churchhistory. Even you cant find this teaching in the bible.
Of course from 1900 till today this teaching changed a little bit, through disharmony in the Movement, splitting and New sources from the different charismatic movements.

So this teaching is a very big difference and it splitteted christianity more then any other teaching.

Pentecostals have build their own churches, charismatic
New through the charismatic movements is, that they invade all denominations, so that today we have the picture that this is normal.
Even churches which are not teaching and practising this baptism with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues are open for the pentecostal/charismatic teachings in general.

It would be maby not so problem if everybody would accept the believe of the other.
But in talking with pentecostals and charismatics always came along, that if you as Christian have not the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues, then you lack something and the statement because you cant speak in tongues your relationship cant be so deep with God as if you speak/ pray in tongues.
Teachings which separate and I cant find in the bible.

About the montanism. From an enemy ore not, you can read about their teachings.
What you would think about a brother who told you that he got a word from God that the new Jerusalem will come very soon down in Dallas, Texas and because of the soon coming of the millenium, dont marry and dont have any intimity in your marriage. Also seek to Die for God, this will bring you closer to God. When you think yes this prophet I should follow, then do it. I would look what the bible says.
Montanism taught this, not in Dallas, but in Pepouza, a City in today westturkey, the new Jerusalem should come.

 

[PaulChristensen]

So far I know through the pentecostal movement the teaching about the baptising with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues started. Before 1900 you cant find this teaching in the whole
Churchhistory. Even you cant find this teaching in the bible.
Of course from 1900 till today this teaching changed a little bit, through disharmony in the Movement, splitting and New sources from the different charismatic movements.

So this teaching is a very big difference and it splitteted christianity more then any other teaching.

Pentecostals have build their own churches, charismatic
New through the charismatic movements is, that they invade all denominations, so that today we have the picture that this is normal.
Even churches which are not teaching and practising this baptism with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues are open for the pentecostal/charismatic teachings in general.

It would be maby not so problem if everybody would accept the believe of the other.
But in talking with pentecostals and charismatics always came along, that if you as Christian have not the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as evidence the gift of speaking in tongues, then you lack something and the statement because you cant speak in tongues your relationship cant be so deep with God as if you speak/ pray in tongues.
Teachings which separate and I cant find in the bible.

About the montanism. From an enemy ore not, you can read about their teachings.
What you would think about a brother who told you that he got a word from God that the new Jerusalem will come very soon down in Dallas, Texas and because of the soon coming of the millenium, dont marry and dont have any intimity in your marriage. Also seek to Die for God, this will bring you closer to God. When you think yes this prophet I should follow, then do it. I would look what the bible says.
Montanism taught this, not in Dallas, but in Pepouza, a City in today westturkey, the new Jerusalem should come.

I don't know about all that. I know that when I asked the Lord for the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues, I received it from Him. I have already said that my most precious times in the presence of God has been well away from any church, so my experience with God is based on my faith in Christ and in the promises and teaching in God's Word.

So if your opposition to the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues is based on your experience with Pentecostal churches, then your perspective would be totally different from mine. I was a full Pentecostal, attending Pentecostal churches for the first 12 years of my Christian life. During those years I saw all the good, bad, and ugly of the movement, and in 1978 I left it because of my disillusionment concerning the conduct of people in my last Charismatic church.

But I didn't throw out the baby with the dirty bath water. I kept my Pentecostal theology because I knew that my take on it was firmly based in Scripture and therefore I had no inclination to give up speaking in tongues, praying for sick people, or sharing the Gospel based on Christ and Him crucified - which teaching I received from sound, Christ-centred mentors in the Pentecostal church. It is interesting after 50 years, most of the Pentecostal teaching I received passed into the mists of history, while the teaching of two very sound Bible teachers is still with me, having passed the test of time. This is because they based their teaching on the Bible, and not the popular winds of doctrine that were blowing through the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches.

Most Pentecostals and Charismatics hold strongly to Christ and Him crucified and resurrected, the need to be born again of the Spirit of God, and high standards of personal holiness. They believe that the fruit of the Spirit displayed in their conduct should always be demonstrated, and that includes self-control, as well as kindness, gentleness and patience, along with love, joy and peace. They see the gifts of the Spirit as tools given to the Body of Christ to confirm believers in the faith and to glorify the grace of Christ

In fact, the vast majority of Pentecostals and Charismatics are more evangelical than many churches labelled "evangelical"! While there are many Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches that have become liberal, social, denying the Virgin Birth and the resurrection of Christ, and have reduced Christianity to a set of personal morals and desire to "save the planet", you will find that there is none of this in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches.

Those lunatic fringe type churches are not true Pentecostal or Charismatic. They have hijacked the P/C label to cover their unBiblical teaching and practice. The problem is that these cult groups dominate Youtube videos, giving uninformed people the wrong idea of what Pentecostalism and the Charismatic is all about.