Blasphemy against holyspirit

[homwardbound]

Can anyone please share your testimonies of how you spoke something against the Holy Spirit or called hs an unclean spirit or something in an anger and felt into the thought that you have committed unpardonable sin and later repented to God and now saved.

Whenever angry about anything one is at the door of not believing God, and will not go on as Job did go on and not deny God, are you, will you? even though he was going through troubles, as well went through troubles
The point of troubles, I see from the book of Job is at chapter 1, when Satan says to God, no wonder Job loves you, you gave him everything. Take that hedge you got around him down and I say, Job will curse you. allow me to Give him troubles.

Troubles happened, yet Job did not deny God, and we can read the entire story and see that. Ask Father in risen Son the two as won of us, to get through this earth we are on first, in many troubled times, especially for anyone that chooses to believe God go through these, at least me I have.
God has promises to us all, and just asks for us to believe and continue to for God will get you through it all as you go through much turbulence on earth, flying in Father's airplane in The Holy Spirit.
God is the Pilot, Jesus the Co-pilot, The stewardess is the Holy Spirit, to serve us in trust to God, for us too see it clearly, no matter happens to us presently
Can I get you a Pepsi, need anything to eat? Now while flying in Daddy's airplane, look out the window, down on earth. How big are things in reality?
Whatever I allow them to be, and how about you? Do we as people make mountains out of mole hills?
Or look through a Telescope and see the firmament (The Heavens). We see from the small end of the telescope to God. God sees from the big end to us. God is bigger than any problem to me as I have gone through my troubles too.
God loves us all, as peoples enemy is emotions leading them to kill, steal and destroy them
Not seeing what is done by Son in being reconciled. Yet, this maturing (Not that I am mature) takes a lot of failures in the process to go to God and be willing to learn from.
The actual sin unto death is Conscious choice between God and you chosen to not believe God loves you and wants only what is best for you. that is proven in risen Son to me
Thanks

 

[GWH]

You're entitled to your opinion.

Show me where those Pharisees who Jesus said blasphemed the Holy Spirit were saved and I might believe your argument but arguing that falling from grace for believers is what Jesus was talking about in Matthew, is a stretch at best.

Apparently, you do not believe Jesus inspired Paul, but I do, and this might explain the difference in our opinions.

 

[Hakawaka]

OSAS does not mean 'will always be faithful if saved' that's calvinism back loading works into salvation. So a believer can 'fall away' without losing salvation..or 'never saved to begin with'

Think about that one.

 

[JohnRH]

Can anyone please share your testimonies of how you spoke something against the Holy Spirit or called hs an unclean spirit or something in an anger and felt into the thought that you have committed unpardonable sin and later repented to God and now saved.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Romans 7:20 (KJV)

 

[wattie]

Think about that one.

Fall away.. is what many many believers do at different stages in life. That's the battle with the flesh.

God will discipline a believer who falls away.. they will experience conviction for their sin.

But eternal life means eternal. Not temporary. Not a higher contract.

He owns the salvation..we don't. We 'work it out' in response to having it..not to maintain it. No one can maintain their salvation. We always sin whether intentionally or not.

 

[GWH]

Fall away.. is what many many believers do at different stages in life. That's the battle with the flesh.

God will discipline a believer who falls away.. they will experience conviction for their sin.

But eternal life means eternal. Not temporary. Not a higher contract.

He owns the salvation..we don't. We 'work it out' in response to having it..not to maintain it. No one can maintain their salvation. We always sin whether intentionally or not.

No it does NOT! Salvation is conditional upon repentance-eternally!
Everyone maintains salvation by meeting the same condition required for receiving it: faith in Jesus as Lord.

 

[sawdust]

Apparently, you do not believe Jesus inspired Paul, but I do, and this might explain the difference in our opinions.

Don't actually respond to the argument please, just stick your nose in the air as if what I said stinks.

You raised 1Tim.1:19-20 and 2Tim.4:14 as if they are talking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I don't think you comprehend what that type of blasphemy actually is. It is not getting things wrong like Hymaneus' teaching regarding the Resurrection or doing harm to someone like Alexander did against Paul. It is being so completely against God that the obvious good, like healing a man of his blindness and muteness by casting out a demon, is seen as an evil thing.

This is why they cannot be forgiven. Not because God is unforgiving but because they are so far gone in their depravity, it is impossible for them to see their need to repent.

Try sticking to the the passage where Jesus actually talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit instead of raising verses that have nothing to do with the topic please.

Matt.12:30-32
30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 For this reason I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Note verse 31 in particular. There are blasphemies that can be forgiven, like the blasphemy of Hymaneus who spoke against Christ which, is why Paul could hand him over to Satan for correction.

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord,

 

[Blade]

So Naveen did you get your answer? Yeah would not be surprised if your more confused. What was Christ doing just before He said that? Ok then just exactly who was Christ talking to after He said it? If you read the posts you now see truth sometimes for some is based on a personal belief where speculation is also tossed in. If I have to ask did I blasphemy the Holy Spirit then I never did. See it was not some man standing there healing and all the rest. If that is what blasphemy against holy spirit is then there are countless "Christians" that have done it. They go after they make fun of believers that do the things He said we will do in His name.

As GWH said no one can answer this for it they did.. there is no saying oops sorry. Also some say that rejecting Christ as lord is blasphemy against holy spirit because without Christ as lord of your live you do not get in.

So without any hesitation I can say as many others here will.. you have not Blasphemy against holy spirit. It was a man yet the great I am standing before them. Some knew it was the Holy Spirit they had no questions and were then warned. Then keep going those He was face to face with were not Christians.. there were no Christians then. They were under and living by the law.

Look at some of the other stuff in this thread that gets talked about. its not Christ saying it to you its some Christians we truly know nothing what so ever about yet they talk as if you best listen they speak real truth.

So from Acts on who else talked about this? go in peace. Ask Him with your heart He will give you peace

 

[LeeLoving]

Can anyone please share your testimonies of how you spoke something against the Holy Spirit or called hs an unclean spirit or something in an anger and felt into the thought that you have committed unpardonable sin and later repented to God and now saved.

Hi Naveen. I've struggled with this. To the best of my knowledge though you cannot commit this sin today as it was only possible for those who were present when the Holy Spirit was at work on the earth through Jesus. I think the sin may be blaspheming against him while he was at work through Jesus, thus it being impossible to commit today.

 

[GWH]

Don't actually respond to the argument please, just stick your nose in the air as if what I said stinks.

You raised 1Tim.1:19-20 and 2Tim.4:14 as if they are talking about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I don't think you comprehend what that type of blasphemy actually is. It is not getting things wrong like Hymaneus' teaching regarding the Resurrection or doing harm to someone like Alexander did against Paul. It is being so completely against God that the obvious good, like healing a man of his blindness and muteness by casting out a demon, is seen as an evil thing.

This is why they cannot be forgiven. Not because God is unforgiving but because they are so far gone in their depravity, it is impossible for them to see their need to repent.

Try sticking to the the passage where Jesus actually talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit instead of raising verses that have nothing to do with the topic please.

Matt.12:30-32
30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 For this reason I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Note verse 31 in particular. There are blasphemies that can be forgiven, like the blasphemy of Hymaneus who spoke against Christ which, is why Paul could hand him over to Satan for correction.

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord,

I do not argue because Paul and Jesus commanded unity, so I hope we agree on this:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

 

[wattie]

No it does NOT! Salvation is conditional upon repentance-eternally!
Everyone maintains salvation by meeting the same condition required for receiving it: faith in Jesus as Lord.

Yes..faith in Christ for eternal salvation. I agree. But the keeping of it is by Him. Our faithfulness goes up and down. Not His.

 

[GWH]

Yes..faith in Christ for eternal salvation. I agree. But the keeping of it is by Him. Our faithfulness goes up and down. Not His.

Repenting of repenting is repudiating saving faith or apostasy, which God allows per all of the Scripture warnings against it,
but hopefully it is rare, because there is no good reason to do so--and believing from moment to moment is no harder than believing the first moment.

 

[sawdust]

I do not argue because Paul and Jesus commanded unity, so I hope we agree on this:

It's not a matter of arguing, it's a matter of being reasonable and addressing the issue I raised rather than going off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Sadly, it seems it is not going to happen.

Have a nice day.

 

[Randy4u2c]

My understanding is that if you are delivered up before Antichrist (Satan), to testify against him when he comes claiming to be God (II The 2:3-4), and you deny the Holy Spirit to speak through you (Math 10:16-20). Being one of God's elect, you would have committed the unforgivable sin because you knew Satan was a fake, was familiar with God's plan to speak through you and you denied the Holy Spirit to do so..

 

[timemeddler]

1Tim.1:18-20
18 I put this charge before you, Timothy my child, in keeping with the prophecies once spoken about you, in order that with such encouragement you may fight the good fight. 19 To do this you must hold firmly to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck in regard to the faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

The other place we see the name Hymaneus crop up is in 2 Timothy

2Tim.2:16-18
16 But avoid profane chatter, because those occupied with it will stray further and further into ungodliness, 17 and their message will spread its infection like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are in this group. 18 They have strayed from the truth by saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are undermining some people’s faith.

Assuming they are the same person (and I can't see why not), we see Hymaneus acknowledged the resurrection of Christ but his teaching on it was in error.

You would think if "shipwrecking one's faith" and "straying from the truth" was tantamount to loss of salvation from death, Paul would have made it very clear their eternal state was one of damnation rather than the loss of truth to live by which results in a blessed life, one saved from the evils of this world and oneself and a state that can be corrected.

Based on what Hymaneus is saying about the Resurrection, I believe Paul is talking of blaspheming Christ rather than the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which Jesus spoke of in Matthew. Paul would have known the unforgiveness associated with such blasphemy, therefore it seems to me there is little point in handing them over to Satan for disciplinary purposes if he considered they had committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Having said that though, if you read on in 2Timothy, Paul does appear to suggest maybe they do not belong to the Lord at all.

2 Timothy 2:19
However, God’s solid foundation remains standing, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from evil.”

It's also another argument against those who think once the Lord has made us spiritually alive and sealed us with Himself, that we can die again and be lost forever as if He is powerful enough to save us but not powerful enough to keep us saved.

Ultimately, I do not believe the OSAS argument, for or against, has any place in the OP's question regarding blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and is primarily a distraction to understanding the true nature of the Matthew 12 blasphemy passage.

my 5 cents worth.

that now makes the second place in the bible I've heard the phrase, "hand him over to satan" the other in chorinthians.

 

[GWH]

It's not a matter of arguing, it's a matter of being reasonable and addressing the issue I raised rather than going off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Sadly, it seems it is not going to happen.

Have a nice day.

The essential kerygma has everything to do with all tangential topics, about which we may disagree until finding out which
interpretation is more correct in heaven.

In this case, you claim 1Tim.1:19-20 and 2Tim 4:14 do not talk about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is unclear,
and you state that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with falling from grace or being unfaithful, whereas
I think HB 6:4-6 clearly indicates that it does, which is called apostasy.

So, I agree to disagree and bet that in heaven we will learn applying HB 6 to the topic was right.

HAND too.

 

[sawdust]

The essential kerygma has everything to do with all tangential topics, about which we may disagree until finding out which
interpretation is more correct in heaven.

In this case, you claim 1Tim.1:19-20 and 2Tim 4:14 do not talk about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is unclear,
and you state that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with falling from grace or being unfaithful, whereas
I think HB 6:4-6 clearly indicates that it does, which is called apostasy.

So, I agree to disagree and bet that in heaven we will learn applying HB 6 to the topic was right.

HAND too.

Then explain how they can learn not to blaspheme if they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable?

I have no problem with people disagreeing but I find it cuts off discussion when people simply make statements without giving any rationale as to why they believe their statements to be true.

Heb.6 is another case of blaspheming Christ. The Matthew passage states quite clearly there are blasphemies that can be forgiven.

Let's discuss, not simply shut down the conversation because you disagree. If you don't want to discuss that's fine too, you only need say so.

Btw. may I suggest you don't abbreviate the "HAND" as it looked initially like you were holding up your hand as a sign to stop. It wasn't until I scrolled back to my post to see what I might have said did I realise you were referring to "have a nice day".

 

[GWH]

Then explain how they can learn not to blaspheme if they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable?

I have no problem with people disagreeing but I find it cuts off discussion when people simply make statements without giving any rationale as to why they believe their statements to be true.

Heb.6 is another case of blaspheming Christ. The Matthew passage states quite clearly there are blasphemies that can be forgiven.

Let's discuss, not simply shut down the conversation because you disagree. If you don't want to discuss that's fine too, you only need say so.

Btw. may I suggest you don't abbreviate the "HAND" as it looked initially like you were holding up your hand as a sign to stop. It wasn't until I scrolled back to my post to see what I might have said did I realise you were referring to "have a nice day".

I agree that you may be right in viewing the case of "they" as not being unrepentable apostasy,
(although if the allusion were more clear "may" would be "are"), because of the case in Corinth (1CR 5:5).

I also agree that people should provide a biblical and logical rationale for what they believe.
(Boy and howdy have I done that on our website! :^)

I disagree that HB 6:4-6 implies the apostate might repent and be forgiven. "It is impossible..." seems clear enough.

I want to discuss (but not argue), because I realize that a way of obtaining knowledge is
by learning from the insights or inspiration of others.

Over...

 

[DeanM]

Many people have many thoughts on this.So if there is someone who have experienced that he might have blasphemed Holyspirit and then repented and saved,those testimonies can help me

My thought is if someone fears they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, they havnt. If they had, the spirit would have left and the person woudnt worry or even care.

 

[sawdust]

I disagree that HB 6:4-6 implies the apostate might repent and be forgiven. "It is impossible..." seems clear enough.

I agree the idea they will repent implies impossible but that is not the issue. The issue is whether their blasphemy is against the Holy Spirit or is it some other blasphemy that can be forgiven. Not all blasphemies are unforgivable.

I fear this is what keeps getting overlooked in the discussion.

To me Heb.6:4-6 is a passage that deals with the "to OSAS or not to OSAS question" but has nothing to say about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

When you look at the Matthew passage where Jesus talks about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matt.12:22-32), it is very clear what is happening and the people He is saying are doing it are clearly not saved.

A person who cannot tell right from wrong or good from evil clearly would not come to Christ. Indeed, if you continue on in the Gospel passage, Jesus calls them vipers and says they are evil. Therefore, to even raise the question of whether one can lose their salvation or not, is entirely moot.

Matthew 12:34
Offspring of vipers! How are you able to say anything good, since you are evil? For the mouth speaks from what fills the heart.

And just so we are clear, do I think a believer can blaspheme the Lord? Yes, I do. Do I think they can blaspheme the Holy Spirit? No, because such a person would never come to Christ in the first place, they are lovers of evil and see their evil as good.