And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[kleronomos]

Genesis 3:19
For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return.


Psalm 92:7
Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish they will be destroyed forever


Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will die... they will disappear like smoke


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die.


Jeremiah 19:5
They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed My mind to command such a thing!


Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.





Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.



John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever


Romans 2:7
He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers.


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death.


2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will be punished with eternal destruction,forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.


2 Peter 2:6
and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly




James 4:12
God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy.


Revelation 20:14-15
And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[kleronomos]

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

They have A PART, A PORTION.

 

[kleronomos]

Rev 20:10 tells us
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Devil has been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

the lake of fire and brimstone is where the false prophet and the beast were cast.

AND THE DEVIL shall be tormented forever,



Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

the wicked PERISH, by being consumed, turned into smoke, ascend up and away
No mention of eternal suffering


Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



And He will wipe away every tear from the eyes of them and DEATH NOT WILL BE ANY LONGER nor mourning nor crying nor pain NOT THEY WILL BE ANY LONGER the former things

have passed away



1510. eimi ►
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.
HELPS Word-studies
1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).

1510 /eimí ("is, am") – in the present tense, indicative mood – can be time-inclusive ("omnitemporal," like the Hebrew imperfect tense). Only the context indicates whether the present tense also has "timeless" implications. For example, 1510 (eimí) is aptly used in Christ's great "I am" (ego eimi . . . ) that also include His eternality (self-existent life) as our life, bread, light," etc. See Jn 7:34, 8:58, etc.

Example: Jn 14:6: "I am (1510 /eimí) the way, the truth and the life." Here 1510 (eimí) naturally accords with the fact Christ is eternal – maning "I am (was, will be)." The "I am formula (Gk egō eimi)" harks back to God's only name, "Yahweh" (OT/3068, "the lord") – meaning "He who always was, is, and will be." Compare Jn 8:58 with Ex 3:14. See also Rev 4:8 and 2962 /kýrios ("Lord").




NO LONGER EXIST
DOESNT matter what you think they are, it meant, it said,
NO LONGER EXIST


END OF STORY


If there is NOTHING NEW TO CONTRIBUTE, THEN PLEASE DON'T.

IF YOU HAVE SAID IT BEFORE THEN PLEASE DO NOT SAY IT AGAIN.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Seriously I don’t even care what you post to me.

I'm sure you don't. Because you don't care about the truth. You have been seriously skewed by your sentimentality in thinking that ECT is CRUEL. Therefore, you are UNABLE to even see the truth.

You are committing projection, by projecting your own highly sentimental opinions onto God, as if He thinks the same way as you do.

Isa 55- 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

It’s all wrong doesn’t help anyone. Move on and stop wasting your time spreading false doctrines.

I'm defending the truth against false postings, such as yours.

You’re playing a dangerous game continuing in error after having come to the knowledge of the truth.

You are kidding yourself.

Being self-deceived won’t help you either; God knows the difference.

He sure does. And His plan for all unbelievers, who have no excuse, is ECT. I have no problem with that. It's His plan, after all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Those in torment seek death

Exactly! Those in the LOF will WISH they would "cease to exist" so they won't feel the torment. But they WILL feel it for eternity.

Great point!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

They have A PART, A PORTION.

And...another GREAT point!! The "part and portion" in the LOF is their physical body, which will cease to exist.

Where is there any mention of their soul, apart from their body, ceasing to exist? It's not there.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Rev 20:10 tells us
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Devil has been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

the lake of fire and brimstone is where the false prophet and the beast were cast.

AND THE DEVIL shall be tormented forever,

Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It's not nice to intentionally misrepresent any verse. What translation deals only with the devil?

The word "they" obviously includes both the beast and FP, who will have been in the LOF for 1,000 years.

 

[Runningman]

Seriously I don’t even care what you post to me.
I'm sure you don't. Because you don't care about the truth. You have been seriously skewed by your sentimentality in thinking that ECT is CRUEL. Therefore, you are UNABLE to even see the truth.

You are committing projection, by projecting your own highly sentimental opinions onto God, as if He thinks the same way as you do.

Isa 55- 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

It’s all wrong doesn’t help anyone. Move on and stop wasting your time spreading false doctrines.
I'm defending the truth against false postings, such as yours.

You’re playing a dangerous game continuing in error after having come to the knowledge of the truth.
You are kidding yourself.

Being self-deceived won’t help you either; God knows the difference.
He sure does. And His plan for all unbelievers, who have no excuse, is ECT. I have no problem with that. It's His plan, after all.

Yeah okay whatever. Pure nonsense.

 

[Jackson123]

The devil do not want go to eternal fire alone, than he lie and say no eternal punishment for human, expect more human deceived and go with him to hell, un bare problem in your life?
kill your self no eternal punishment, only cease to exist

 

[Magenta]

The devil do not want go to eternal fire alone, than he lie and say no eternal punishment for
human, expect more human deceived and go with him to hell, un bare problem in your life?
kill your self no eternal punishment, only cease to exist

That is not what the devil said. The lie he told is, "You shall not surely die."

That is the lie that plunged humanity and all creation into deception, decay, and death.

That very same lie being repeated to this very day.

Along with many others, such as, perish does not mean perish.

Please stop promoting suicide

 

[Jackson123]

That is not what the devil said. The lie he told is, "You shall not surely die."

That is the lie that plunged humanity and all creation into deception, decay, and death.

That very same lie being repeated to this very day.

Along with many others, such as, perish does not mean perish.

Please stop promoting suicide

It was, he lie to Eve, now he lie to human, die is better than hard life, because die is cease to exist.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That very same lie being repeated to this very day.

Along with many others, such as, perish does not mean perish.

It seems the only people who keep repeating "perish does not mean perish" are those who believe that dying means ceasing to exist.

No one on this thread who believes the Bible teaches ECT have EVER said that. So it seems to be a real mystery why those who deny ECT keep repeating what isn't true at all.

Perish DOES mean perish. Destruction DOES mean destruction.

The difference between our views is that these words only apply to the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

In Rev 20:10 the verse is clear that Satan will join the beast and FP in the LOF. So those 2 are STILL there, having been thrown into the LOF 1,000 years previous. Rev 19:20-20:10.

Do you think their bodies will still be there as well?

 

[Runningman]

The devil do not want go to eternal fire alone, than he lie and say no eternal punishment for human, expect more human deceived and go with him to hell, un bare problem in your life?
kill your self no eternal punishment, only cease to exist

You have quite the imagination as literally nothing you just said is found in the Bible except that that cease to exist. You took quite a strange road to arrive at the truth, but congratulations you got there, though seemingly through much difficulty. Of course, maybe you’re just scoffing the Bible at this point. I’m not entirely sure your intentions are pure.

 

[Runningman]

It seems the only people who keep repeating "perish does not mean perish" are those who believe that dying means ceasing to exist.

No one on this thread who believes the Bible teaches ECT have EVER said that. So it seems to be a real mystery why those who deny ECT keep repeating what isn't true at all.

Perish DOES mean perish. Destruction DOES mean destruction.

The difference between our views is that these words only apply to the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

In Rev 20:10 the verse is clear that Satan will join the beast and FP in the LOF. So those 2 are STILL there, having been thrown into the LOF 1,000 years previous. Rev 19:20-20:10.

Do you think their bodies will still be there as well?

That’s your wholly unwarranted assumption.

Impossible to have anything left at all after someone is utterly destroyed, which is what the Son of God said in John 3:16. Otherwise they weren’t utterly destroyed. You make the Bible impossible to understand and your interpretation produces a domino effect of contradictions. Its a false doctrine.

Crystal clear rightly-divided Bible: A person is a body, soul, and spirit. You don’t have any justification for saying only the body is destroyed. God resurrects dead people only to destroy just their body again? Nothing of the sort exists in the Bible.

In order to cling onto your false doctrine you require only the body be destroyed in hell, but Jesus Christ flat out contradicts you. He said “fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell” because that’s the alternative to being saved; that’s perishing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have quite the imagination as literally nothing you just said is found in the Bible except that that cease to exist.

No one is denying that "cease to exist" EXISTS in the Bible.

The real issue is where does it SAY that souls WILL cease to exist. You don't have any verse that says that. And that is what you need to prove your case.

What will definitely cease to exist are the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
It seems the only people who keep repeating "perish does not mean perish" are those who believe that dying means ceasing to exist.

No one on this thread who believes the Bible teaches ECT have EVER said that. So it seems to be a real mystery why those who deny ECT keep repeating what isn't true at all.

Perish DOES mean perish. Destruction DOES mean destruction.

The difference between our views is that these words only apply to the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

In Rev 20:10 the verse is clear that Satan will join the beast and FP in the LOF. So those 2 are STILL there, having been thrown into the LOF 1,000 years previous. Rev 19:20-20:10.

Do you think their bodies will still be there as well?

That’s your wholly unwarranted assumption.

What am I assuming? Your side keeps claiming a LIE about our side. No one claims that perish doesn't mean perish or destruction doesn't mean destruction. So why do you guys keep lying about it?

Impossible to have anything left at all after someone is utterly destroyed

Right. Their body, obviously. You KNOW you don't have any verse that SAYS that souls will cease to exist.

which is what the Son of God said in John 3:16. Otherwise they weren’t utterly destroyed.

Their bodies will be. There is no verse that says that souls will be. You are the presuming one.

You make the Bible impossible to understand and your interpretation produces a domino effect of contradictions. Its a false doctrine.

How about laying all that out for me. I don't see how anything I post produces contradictions. Enlighten me, please.

Crystal clear rightly-divided Bible: A person is a body, soul, and spirit. You don’t have any justification for saying only the body is destroyed.

I do. The body is material and CAN be destroyed, easily enough. What verse SAYS that souls will be destroyed.

All you do is PRESUME that souls/spirits will be included when the body goes poof. You have no proof or verse.

God resurrects dead people only to destroy just their body again? Nothing of the sort exists in the Bible.

Plain as day. But your sentiments won't let you. You think ECT is CRUEL and of course you can't accept that God's plan is ECT.

That's your problem. I don't care either way. I will accept what the Bible says. And it says clear enough that resurrected bodies will cease to exist. The Bible says says nothing about souls ceasing to exist.

In order to cling onto your false doctrine you require only the body be destroyed in hell

I require nothing. It is material things that can be "utterly destroyed". There is NO evidence that immaterial things will be. Nor does the Bible say that souls/spirits will cease to exist.

but Jesus Christ flat out contradicts you. He said “fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell” because that’s the alternative to being saved; that’s perishing.

Why in the world do you keep using a verse that DOESN'T SAY what you so firmly hold to? He NEVER said that God WILL. Only that God can.

And nobody argues against that.

You don't even see your own extreme PRESUMPTION. You presume "can" means "will". But it doesn't. And never has. And never will.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
It seems the only people who keep repeating "perish does not mean perish" are those who believe that dying means ceasing to exist.

No one on this thread who believes the Bible teaches ECT have EVER said that. So it seems to be a real mystery why those who deny ECT keep repeating what isn't true at all.

Perish DOES mean perish. Destruction DOES mean destruction.

The difference between our views is that these words only apply to the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

In Rev 20:10 the verse is clear that Satan will join the beast and FP in the LOF. So those 2 are STILL there, having been thrown into the LOF 1,000 years previous. Rev 19:20-20:10.

Do you think their bodies will still be there as well?

What am I assuming? Your side keeps claiming a LIE about our side. No one claims that perish doesn't mean perish or destruction doesn't mean destruction. So why do you guys keep lying about it?


Right. Their body, obviously. You KNOW you don't have any verse that SAYS that souls will cease to exist.


Their bodies will be. There is no verse that says that souls will be. You are the presuming one.


How about laying all that out for me. I don't see how anything I post produces contradictions. Enlighten me, please.


I do. The body is material and CAN be destroyed, easily enough. What verse SAYS that souls will be destroyed.

All you do is PRESUME that souls/spirits will be included when the body goes poof. You have no proof or verse.


Plain as day. But your sentiments won't let you. You think ECT is CRUEL and of course you can't accept that God's plan is ECT.

That's your problem. I don't care either way. I will accept what the Bible says. And it says clear enough that resurrected bodies will cease to exist. The Bible says says nothing about souls ceasing to exist.


I require nothing. It is material things that can be "utterly destroyed". There is NO evidence that immaterial things will be. Nor does the Bible say that souls/spirits will cease to exist.


Why in the world do you keep using a verse that DOESN'T SAY what you so firmly hold to? He NEVER said that God WILL. Only that God can.

And nobody argues against that.

You don't even see your own extreme PRESUMPTION. You presume "can" means "will". But it doesn't. And never has. And never will.

No you got it all wrong. Read the past several dozen pages again. You can’t prove anything. The word of God opposes you.

 

[Runningman]

No one is denying that "cease to exist" EXISTS in the Bible.

The real issue is where does it SAY that souls WILL cease to exist. You don't have any verse that says that. And that is what you need to prove your case.

What will definitely cease to exist are the physical resurrected bodies of unbelievers.

You don’t have a verse to say only the bodies will cease to exist, but the Bible is clear that God is able to save or destroy. There’s no such talk of eternal torment for all of the unsaved.

“Able to destroy soul and body in hell…”

“But, but, but, it says able! See?”

Your red herring doesn’t support your pretense that He will not or is unlikely to destroy soul and body in hell. God is able to destroy soul and body in hell because that’s the alternative to being saved. Jesus said to fear Him because of this. FreeGrace says there’s nothing to fear about being destroyed. This is very simple, I wonder who is totally wrong here? You or God?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The devil do not want go to eternal fire alone, than he lie and say no eternal punishment for human, expect more human deceived and go with him to hell, un bare problem in your life?
kill your self no eternal punishment, only cease to exist

True, that is why Heinrich Himmler killed himself with a cyanide capsule. He thought death was an escape.
A ceasing to exist. Which is a lie from Satan.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No you got it all wrong.

Your posts are like a broken record.

Read the past several dozen pages again. You can’t prove anything. The word of God opposes you.

Thank you for your opinion, of which I don't need. I have the Bible, which is very clear about ECT. I'm sorry your sentiments have gotten in the way of your ability to understand the Word.