And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Runningman]

I like this one better

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

There will be no wiggle room. Remember this verse?

Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, and I know it ends with by promising him life: but I think it appropriate here because 'eternal torture' being put forth as GODS CHARACTER, does make me sad. TRULY, VERY SAD. And I don't think anyone should mock others because they have strong feelings. I don't think you should keep pushing like a bully just to make sure you embarrass them with words put forth just to belittle. I don't think GOD likes it at all either.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


BUT I try to look at it as more my test, my persecution because every time I rise up from it, following the Lords commands, I mature, I become a better soldier for Christ and that is my goal.


Well it is so much better said here

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

1 Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Corinthians 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.



2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Yes and amen. 👍🏻🙏🏻

 

[FreeGrace2]

The title of this thread is false. It says only the devil will be eternally damned.

Matt 25:41 specifically says the LOF will be prepared for the devil AND HIS ANGELS. So there's that.

Further, Rev 19:20 says that Jesus throws both the beast (aka antichrist, and the FP) alive into the LOF, and in Rev 20:10 it says the devil will be cast into the LOF, WHERE THE BEAST AND FP ARE, and THEY (multiple) will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever".

So, in Rev 20:10, we KNOW that the humans beast and FP AND the devil and ALL fallen angels will be IN the LOF.

Then, immediately what follows is the GWT judgment, where ALL the rest of the unbelievers from the human race will be cast into the LOF.

And, btw, there is nothing in the text that tells us that the "rest of the unbelievers" will have a DIFFERENT experience in the LOF than the beast, FP, and all the fallen angels.

And so, there's that, as well.

 

[Jackson123]

I like this one better

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

There will be no wiggle room. Remember this verse?

Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, and I know it ends with by promising him life: but I think it appropriate here because 'eternal torture' being put forth as GODS CHARACTER, does make me sad. TRULY, VERY SAD. And I don't think anyone should mock others because they have strong feelings. I don't think you should keep pushing like a bully just to make sure you embarrass them with words put forth just to belittle. I don't think GOD likes it at all either.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


BUT I try to look at it as more my test, my persecution because every time I rise up from it, following the Lords commands, I mature, I become a better soldier for Christ and that is my goal.


Well it is so much better said here

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

1 Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Corinthians 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.



2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

If you do all of those verses above, you will know that truth, and you know the theory of cease to exist is lie

 

[Runningman]

The title of this thread is false. It says only the devil will be eternally damned.

Matt 25:41 specifically says the LOF will be prepared for the devil AND HIS ANGELS. So there's that.

Further, Rev 19:20 says that Jesus throws both the beast (aka antichrist, and the FP) alive into the LOF, and in Rev 20:10 it says the devil will be cast into the LOF, WHERE THE BEAST AND FP ARE, and THEY (multiple) will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever".

So, in Rev 20:10, we KNOW that the humans beast and FP AND the devil and ALL fallen angels will be IN the LOF.

Then, immediately what follows is the GWT judgment, where ALL the rest of the unbelievers from the human race will be cast into the LOF.

And, btw, there is nothing in the text that tells us that the "rest of the unbelievers" will have a DIFFERENT experience in the LOF than the beast, FP, and all the fallen angels.

And so, there's that, as well.

Hebrews 2:14
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


1 Timothy 6:4,5
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[Runningman]

If you do all of those verses above, you will know that truth, and you know the theory of cease to exist is lie

You can’t prove your lies using scripture. Matthew 24:46 doesn’t prove what you’re saying. The point is for you to prove ECT for all of the unsaved. You can’t do it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You can’t prove your lies using scripture. Matthew 24:46 doesn’t prove what you’re saying. The point is for you to prove ECT for all of the unsaved. You can’t do it.

Sure. Just connect the obvious dots between Rom 20:10 and 15.

And there is NOTHING in the text about those at the GWT judgment getting anything DIFFERENT than what the beast and FP will get.

You are the one who has failed to prove your point.

 

[Runningman]

Sure. Just connect the obvious dots between Rom 20:10 and 15

Romans 20 doesn’t exist. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Jackson123]

You can’t prove your lies using scripture. Matthew 24:46 doesn’t prove what you’re saying. The point is for you to prove ECT for all of the unsaved. You can’t do it.

i do, only 2 group for all nation, sheep and goat
all goat to eternal punishment

not 3 group

 

[Runningman]

i do, only 2 group for all nation, sheep and goat
all goat to eternal punishment

not 3 group

So you have 1 verse that you’ve decided means what you want it to mean even though the rest of the Bible doesn’t support it. Okay enjoy your fantasy.

 

[kleronomos]

So you have 1 verse that you’ve decided means what you want it to mean even though the rest of the Bible doesn’t support it. Okay enjoy your fantasy.

So, how's it going?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Sure. Just connect the obvious dots between Rom 20:10 and 15

Romans 20 doesn’t exist. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

You know what I meant. Don't act dense. Rev 20:10-15.

You're just desperate for a dodge. Everyone makes typos. Don't play ___________ !!

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you have 1 verse that you’ve decided means what you want it to mean even though the rest of the Bible doesn’t support it. Okay enjoy your fantasy.

Yeah, talk about a fantasy. You really take the cake.

Dan 12:2, Matt 25:41, 46, Rev 19:20, 20:10-15. Count them for a change.

 

[Runningman]

Yeah, talk about a fantasy. You really take the cake.

Dan 12:2, Matt 25:41, 46, Rev 19:20, 20:10-15. Count them for a change.

Your eternal torment heresy has been debunked. You literally have no more talking points and just a few verses you are incapable of understanding.

 

[Jackson123]

So you have 1 verse that you’ve decided means what you want it to mean even though the rest of the Bible doesn’t support it. Okay enjoy your fantasy.

You accuse Jesus contradict Himself
that verse not contradict other

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Yeah, talk about a fantasy. You really take the cake.

Dan 12:2, Matt 25:41, 46, Rev 19:20, 20:10-15. Count them for a change.

Your eternal torment heresy has been debunked.

Quite the opposite. The above verses PROVE ECT and debunk your "soul ceasing to exist" idea.

You literally have no more talking points

I've never had them, unlike yourself. I DO have verses that have debunked your theory about souls ceasing to exist.

You still haven't proven that punishment can be inflicted on a soul that doesn't exist. That is insane.

You continue to use capital punishment as the example of "ceasing to exist" when a criminal is put to death. Yes, their life on earth DOES cease to exist, BUT their dead body IS in the ground, AND their soul is in Hades. So your example completely fails. It's too narrow minded.

For the unbeliever, they will lose their physical body forever; that is clear. But since the punishment is described as eternal, there HAS TO BE an existing person or soul to receive the punishment.

But, your sentiments get in the way of that and you can't bear the thought that God is CRUEL, so you simply won't accept the facts of the BIble, and instead, twist what the Bible says to FIT your sentimental theory. Poor old unbeliever. He doesn't need to suffer for eternity.

Well, that is exactly what the Bible says, regardless of your sentiments (opinions).

It may be a shock to you, but God isn't sentimental like you are. He is perfect, and His plan for mankind is perfect, whether for salvation or condemnation.

Personally, I am not bothered at all by God's plan for eternal punishment and torment for unbelievers. They have no excuse. The Bible says that and I believe that.

You need to get over your sentiments and read the Bible with an open mind, not through those sentimental spectacles of yours.


and just a few verses you are incapable of understanding.[/QUOTE]

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
Yeah, talk about a fantasy. You really take the cake.

Dan 12:2, Matt 25:41, 46, Rev 19:20, 20:10-15. Count them for a change.

Quite the opposite. The above verses PROVE ECT and debunk your "soul ceasing to exist" idea.


I've never had them, unlike yourself. I DO have verses that have debunked your theory about souls ceasing to exist.

You still haven't proven that punishment can be inflicted on a soul that doesn't exist. That is insane.

You continue to use capital punishment as the example of "ceasing to exist" when a criminal is put to death. Yes, their life on earth DOES cease to exist, BUT their dead body IS in the ground, AND their soul is in Hades. So your example completely fails. It's too narrow minded.

For the unbeliever, they will lose their physical body forever; that is clear. But since the punishment is described as eternal, there HAS TO BE an existing person or soul to receive the punishment.

But, your sentiments get in the way of that and you can't bear the thought that God is CRUEL, so you simply won't accept the facts of the BIble, and instead, twist what the Bible says to FIT your sentimental theory. Poor old unbeliever. He doesn't need to suffer for eternity.

Well, that is exactly what the Bible says, regardless of your sentiments (opinions).

It may be a shock to you, but God isn't sentimental like you are. He is perfect, and His plan for mankind is perfect, whether for salvation or condemnation.

Personally, I am not bothered at all by God's plan for eternal punishment and torment for unbelievers. They have no excuse. The Bible says that and I believe that.

You need to get over your sentiments and read the Bible with an open mind, not through those sentimental spectacles of yours.


and just a few verses you are incapable of understanding.

Seriously I don’t even care what you post to me. It’s all wrong doesn’t help anyone. Move on and stop wasting your time spreading false doctrines. You’re playing a dangerous game continuing in error after having come to the knowledge of the truth. Being self-deceived won’t help you either; God knows the difference.

 

[kleronomos]

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

1557. ekdikésis
Strong's Concordance
ekdikésis: vengeance, vindication
Original Word: ἐκδίκησις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekdikésis
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-dik'-ay-sis)
Definition: vengeance, vindication
Usage: (a) a defense, avenging, vindication, vengeance, (b) full (complete) punishment.
HELPS Word-studies
1557 ekdíkēsis (a feminine noun derived from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 1349 /díkē, "justice, judge") – properly, judgment which fully executes the core-values (standards) of the particular judge, i.e. extending from the inner-person of the judge to its out-come (outcome).

THE CORE VALUES OF THE PARTICULAR JUDGE - A COMPLETE PUNISHMENT



467. antapodidómi
Strong's Concordance
antapodidómi: to give back as an equivalent, recompense
Original Word: ἀνταποδίδωμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: antapodidómi
Phonetic Spelling: (an-tap-od-ee'-do-mee)
Definition: to give back as an equivalent, recompense
Usage: I give in return, recompense.
HELPS Word-studies
467 antapodídōmi (from 473 /antí, "corresponding back" and 591 /apodídōmi, "give") – properly, "pay-back," recompense; return, as an equivalence, i.e. what is equitable (proportional, "fitting").




REPAY
7999. shalam ►
Strong's Concordance
shalam: amends
Original Word: שָׁלַם
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shalam
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-lam')
Definition: to be complete or sound





1576. gemul ►
Strong's Concordance
gemul: a dealing, recompense, benefit
Original Word: גְּמוּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: gemul
Phonetic Spelling: (ghem-ool')
Definition: a dealing, recompense, benefit
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from gamal
Definition
a dealing, recompense, benefit
NASB Translation
benefit (1), benefits (1), dealings (1), deeds (1), deserved* (1), good deed (1), recompense (11), recompense* (1), what he deserves* (1).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
as hast served, benefit, desert, deserving, recompense, reward
From gamal; treatment, i.e. An act (of good or ill); by implication, service or requital -- + as hast served, benefit, desert, deserving, that which he hath given, recompense, reward.




and He repays those who hate Him to their face to destroy them not He will be slack with him who hates Him to his face He will repay him

6. abad ►
Strong's Concordance
abad: to perish
Original Word: אָבַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: abad
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-bad')
Definition: to perish
And at time that shall stand up Michael the prince great who stands over the sons of your people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since the was a nation to time that and at time that shall be delivered your people every one who is found written in the book


everlasting
5769. olam ►
Strong's Concordance
olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity
Original Word: עוֹלָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: olam
Phonetic Spelling: (o-lawm')
Definition: long duration, antiquity, futurity

 

[kleronomos]

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


Those in torment seek death

 

[kleronomos]

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son



Former things passed away

 

[kleronomos]

2 Thess 1:8

in a fire of flame inflicting vengeance on those not knowing God and on those not obeying the gospel of the Lord of us Jesus



1557 ekdikésis

vengeance

vindication

full (complete) punishment





2 Thess 1:9

who [the] penalty will suffer of destruction,

eternal away from presence of the Lord and from the glory of the power of Him









1349 diké

a decision

a judgment that regards someone as guilty or innocent

a recompense



5099 tinó

to pay

to pay a penalty

to be punished



3639 olethros

destruction

death



166 aiónios

agelong

eternal



575 apo

from

away from

of separation



4383 prosópon

the face

countenance

surface.