Well, it certainly seems to me that you are doing the judging. You, not the Lord Jesus, wrote, "Then Dino246 failed the test. "
Why God the Father considered this fruit as forbidden?
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You, not the Lord Jesus
If the recognition to Jesus is a revelation from the Father.
It will be revealed his 2 roles.
Like what Simon Peter said.
Jesus 1st Role: The Christ means the Savior
Jesus 2nd Role: Son of the living God
MATTHEW 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
In the 2nd role of Jesus as Son of the living God.
He is the eldest son among the chosen of God.
ROMANS 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Jesus being the eldest son, his brethren or his younger brethren (Chosen of God) should follow his steps.
1 PETER 2:21
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Then Jesus as Son of the living God is not judging but telling the truth.
His brethren (Chosen of God are not judging too but telling the truth.
That is why John the Baptist being one of the younger brethren (chosen of God) is following the step of Jesus as Son of the living God.
MATTHEW 3:7-10
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
If you have the chance to meet John the Baptist. I don't think you should tell him this. You, not the Lord Jesus, wrote, "Then Scribes & Pharisees failed the test.
Is it appropriate to say that. It is not up to John the Baptist to tell people they have failed the test?
The Lord Jesus revealed to his chosen who are the people who failed the test. And his chosen will tell the people who are failed.
If the chosen keep for themselves the revelation of Jesus and not to tell to the people then the revelation have no use.
Perhaps you have your own reason why it should not to. But I can tell that it is just a result of your feelings.
Do you believe that the heart is a deceitful according to God the Father?
JEREMIAH 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Because there is nothing wrong to fail the test.
In the New Testament according to Lord Jesus all Jews failed the test. Including those who became Apostles and disciples.
ROMANS 3:10-12
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
But the Apostles & Disciples of Jesus when they learned it. They trust and admit to Jesus that they are. And so they beg and ask for Jesus Mercy on how they pass the test. And Jesus revealed it to them and they became Apostles & Disciples.
But the rest of the Jews particularly Scribes & Pharisees got mad and insist their own belief is the truth.
In our generation today. Everybody failed the test.
But the chosen of God whose recognition to Jesus is a revelation from the Father. They did what the Apostles & Disciples to beg for Jesus and ask for his mercy. So Jesus reveal to them how they pass the test.
Unfortunately, most of the people get mad and insist on what they believe is the truth.
Even myself before. When I learned that I failed the test from the people whose recognition to Jesus is a revelation from the Father.
First I wept much then I beg to Jesus and asked for his mercy. He took pity on me and he revealed to me how to pass the test.
There is nothing wrong to fail the test. And it is better to admit so that Jesus will reveal the secret how to pass the test.
What is wrong is if you get mad and keep insisting on what your own belief as the Scribes & Pharisees did.So to them Jesus never reveal the secret how to pass the test.
They must hear it.
ROMANS 10:14
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
However, John the Baptist was not testing the spirits in the way the apostle John was saying when he wrote: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." John the Baptist wasn't testing to see whether he should believe those who falsely came to him for baptism. He knew they were false. He called them a brood of vipers.
Yes, I fully believe that the human heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked, as Jeremiah says.
You are still taking this testing out of context. John was telling his readers how to avoid false teachers. The Romans passage you quote is about all humans by nature, not just Jews, and not just those who claim to be teachers of God's word;
Again, you are taking John's testing out of context. It was specifically a warning about false prophets, false teachers, not a test to apply to everybody i nthe world.
I don't understand how you can say that there is nothing wrong if you fail the test. In the context of 1 John, those who failed the test were false teachers, false prophets. There was definitely something wrong. But John was writing to warn believers against listening to the false teachers, not telling them to judge anyone.
However, John the Baptist was not testing the spirits in the way the apostle John was saying when he wrote: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God." John the Baptist wasn't testing to see whether he should believe those who falsely came to him for baptism. He knew they were false. He called them a brood of vipers.
Of course it is not written in the scripture that John the Baptist making a test. But because they don't want to be baptized in John the Baptist baptism. That is understood to John the Baptist that they failed the test. They were being exposed by Lord Jesus to John the Baptist. And he has the guts to call them what you say brood of vipers. It means they failed the test. They are not of God.
You are still taking this testing out of context. John was telling his readers how to avoid false teachers. The Romans passage you quote is about all humans by nature, not just Jews, and not just those who claim to be teachers of God's word;
The testing the spirit should not be ignored. It is a commandment of Jesus. And the purpose so they know, beg to Jesus and ask for his mercy.
I don't understand how you can say that there is nothing wrong if you fail the test. In the context of 1 John, those who failed the test were false teachers, false prophets. There was definitely something wrong. But John was writing to warn believers against listening to the false teachers, not telling them to judge anyone.
Yes, I can say it again that there is nothing wrong to fail the test.
It doesn't mean when you fail the test you are automatically put you into a damnation.
John was telling them they are false teachers and false prophets.
The purpose of Lord Jesus so they know that they are false teachers and false Prophets. Because Scribes & Pharisees believe that they are of God.
ROMANS 10:14
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And this mission of Lord Jesus benefited the Scribe who asked the first commandment to Jesus.
This scribe was a false teacher and false Prophet.
I don't think if you believe me that this scribe begged to Jesus and ask for his mercy.
Perhaps you don't believe and you will say, it is not written in the context. Because you are after the letter.
MARK 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Another person benefited in Romans 10:14 was Saul of Tarsus who once was a Pharisee.
But when he knew he failed the test. He admitted that he was a false teacher and false Prophet.
He begged to Jesus and ask for his mercy. Then he passed the test and he became Paul.
While we are taking this topic so long. You are also revealed that you failed the test.
You have 2 choices.
1. You get mad or if not just to insist on what you believe and neglect Romans 10:14
2. Beg to Jesus and ask for his mercy so he will reveal to you the secret on how to pass the test. Like Jesus did to the scribe in Mark 12:28 and to Saul of Tarsus who became Paul.
What we are seeking in this forum is the truth and.
I will try once more to explain. The test the apostle John writes of in his letter is for Christians to test in their minds whether what prophet or a teacher says is true. He is not telling them to set a test which the prophets and teachers have to take. You tell me that I have failed John's test. I could only do that if I were a teacher or a prophet. I will leave it there. As you say, we have been on this a long time.
The Apostles and Disciples of Christ were not conducting a test. The result was just revealed to them only by Lord Jesus.
The test in 1 John 4:2 is not particularly who is the false Christ and false Prophets. It is for the believers and readers of the words of God. Who are of God and who are not?
I did not conduct a test. But through the truth to the words of God. I can tell if you fail or pass. It means my decision will depend on what is the truth in the words of God. And not in my own.
We are not going to agree on this so I am leaving this thread, at least for the moment.
Nothing in the text says that these are "roles" nor that they are mutually exclusive, nor that they are exhaustive.
A "role" is a set of tasks or responsibilities that one completes or performs; you operate in a role in one context but not in another, so it's not a core identity, who you are, but rather only what you do. In my role as an employee, I do certain things with authority. If I tried to exercise that authority in a different workplace, I would be quickly escorted out. I have another role as a musician, and if I attempted to apply the responsibilities of a musician to my role as an employee (or vice versa), people would rightly think I was crazy.
Jesus does not have a "role" as "Christ"; He has a core identity as "Christ". Similarly, He does not have a "role" as the Son of God; He is the Son of God. He doesn't stop being "Christ" while He operates as "Son of God"; both are Who He is.
You have set these things up as a test not found in Scripture, while ignoring the text that is clearly presented.
1 John 4:1-2a says this:
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God"
You have overlooked, dismissed, or ignored the next part:
"Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God."
THAT is the test! While it is related to Peter's confession in content, it is very specific, and there is no need to interpret it to mean something John didn't write.
For some wacky reason, you have concluded that I have "failed the test" without ever demonstrating where or how. I believe you have made this conclusion to justify ignoring the correction I give you. Whether that is valid or not doesn't matter, but your repeated baseless blather about me "failing the test" is foolish and has absolutely no redeeming value. You aren't going to convince me that I have failed any test rooted in your misinterpretation of Scripture. I know what the Scripture actually says because I read it, and have read the entire Bible many times. I have been following Jesus for decades. I acknowledged that He came in the flesh 30 years ago, and have never denied that since.
So, according to Scripture, I passed the test.
Have you?
Let me say it first. I'm not Jesus but what matters here is the words of Jesus (truth).
A man has been given a freewill by God, to decide for himself and God never control man's choice.
JOHN 6:55-57, 60 & 66
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Nothing in the text says that these are "roles" nor that they are mutually exclusive, nor that they are exhaustive.
Although it is written in the scripture (Matthew 16:15-17) but you still not believe.
The reason is because your recognition to Jesus is not a revelation from the Father but from your hermeneutical method only.
A "role" is a set of tasks or responsibilities that one completes or performs; you operate in a role in one context but not in another, so it's not a core identity, who you are, but rather only what you do. In my role as an employee, I do certain things with authority. If I tried to exercise that authority in a different workplace, I would be quickly escorted out. I have another role as a musician, and if I attempted to apply the responsibilities of a musician to my role as an employee (or vice versa), people would rightly think I was crazy.
Because your recognition to Jesus is not a revelation from the Father (Matt 16:15-17). Then you can't i dentify who God the Father is .
JOHN 8:19
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Not knowing God the Father never follow his commandment on how to understand God's words.
ISAIAH 28:10
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
The 2 roles of Jesus could be understand thru the revelation of the Father by using Isaiah 28:10.
Did I say I don't believe? No; you just assumed that.
Did I deny that Jesus is the Son of God? No; you just assumed that.
Did I deny that Jesus is the Saviour? No; you just assumed that.
I reject your use of the word "roles" because Jesus' core identity (Saviour, Son of God) is not a "role". Your limited command of English has hamstrung your understanding.
For some wacky reason, you have concluded that I have "failed the test" without ever demonstrating where or how. I believe you have made this conclusion to justify ignoring the correction I give you. Whether that is valid or not doesn't matter, but your repeated baseless blather about me "failing the test" is foolish and has absolutely no redeeming value. You aren't going to convince me that I have failed any test rooted in your misinterpretation of Scripture. I know what the Scripture actually says because I read it, and have read the entire Bible many times. I have been following Jesus for decades. I acknowledged that He came in the flesh 30 years ago, and have never denied that since.
So, according to Scripture, I passed the test.
The test given by Lord Jesus in 1 John 4:2 is to determine if the person knows or could identify who God the Father is.
If they know him then they are of God.
If they don't know him then they are not of God.
Because the Scribes and Pharisees insist that their God is God the Father
This is how Jesus demonstrate who failed the test.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
If you believe that you passed the test then keep on your believing.
Because God gave a man a freewill and so Lord Jesus has nothing to do with your belief because that is your choice.
I really can see that the words of God never pass away.
MATTHEW 24:35
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
In John Chapter 9. The story of blind man who healed by Jesus.
And it was reveal the reason why he is blind it is because he doesn't recognize the real Jesus of the Apostles.
Then whoever doesn't know the real Jesus doesn't know the Father too.
JOHN 8:19
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
By not knowing God the Father, the sins is not forgiven.
JEREMIAH 31:34
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Therefore: The man admitted to Jesus that he is blind (he admitted to Jesus that he failed the test because he doesn't know who God the Father is). And so the blind man healed by Jesus. When he was healed he recognized the real Jesus of the Apostles and at the same time he recognized who God the Father is.
And it was revealed that his blindness is spiritual blindness.
Because whoever not knowing who God the Father is, is a spiritual blind.
The character of the Scribes and Pharisees is still here in our generation.
Look at the Scribes and the Pharisees they insist that they know who God the Father is.
Means they insist that they passed the test.
JOHN 9:40
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
But Jesus is not depending on what coming out from the mouth but he knows what is in the heart.
MATTHEW 15:8
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Although Scribes & Pharisees insist that they know who God the Father is. This is what Jesus said to them.
JOHN 8:41
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
The message of Lord Jesus is. There is nothing wrong by admitting the test is failed. Or there is nothing wrong to admit that we don't know the real Jesus and so not knowing God the Father. Because that is a symbol of humbleness in the eyes of the Lord as the blind man did.
What is wrong is if you're telling that you passed the test but the Lord Jesus knows it is not. Then he will tell you but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
I’ll respond more fully later, but it is evident that you are reading the text and then inventing meanings for it that don’t correspond with it.
If you use the "Post reply" button, you don't need to copy the other person's words again. That just takes up unnecessary space. If you want to address only part of their post, copy and paste the opening and the closing, around the portion of text you're addressing.
Again, that is not what the text says. I don't know how you can read the text, dismiss the actual words, and inject something else.
The text actually says this:
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
"The Father" is not mentioned. Knowing "the Father" is not mentioned. Even knowing "God" is not mentioned. It says by this test (THIS test, not some other test from somewhere else in Scripture!), you may know whether a SPIRIT (not a person) is from God.
No, that was not revealed in the text... ANYWHERE. You're inventing things again.
What the man did say is this shown clearly in verse 36:
35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
36 “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
It is obvious that the man is answering Jesus' question in the previous verse, where He refers to HIMSELF, not to the Father. Newly able to see, the man did not recognize Jesus by His appearance because he had never seen Jesus!
No, he didn't; that's not in the text anywhere. Scripture does not record the man saying ANYTHING to Jesus at their first meeting.
So, again, you're inventing things!
Yet again, you are claiming something is in the text that is not there at all. Jesus told the man that He was the one who healed him. The man believed. Nothing is said about him "recognizing who God the Father is".
With all the "inventing" you do regarding the text of Scripture, you obviously don't know Jesus' warning:
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18)
Again, that is not what the text says. I don't know how you can read the text, dismiss the actual words, and inject something else.
Let us not depend on the text or letter. It will put you into a damnation.
2 CORINTHIANS 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
"The Father" is not mentioned. Knowing "the Father" is not mentioned. Even knowing "God" is not mentioned. It says by this test (THIS test, not some other test from somewhere else in Scripture!), you may know whether a SPIRIT (not a person) is from God.
It is a revelation from God. Not knowing Jesus Christ means not knowing God the Father. They are connected.
JOHN 8:19
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Jesus who came in the flesh is connected to God the Father. It doesn't mean the Father was not mention in the text is not connected in 1 JOHN 4:3
God the Father speaks in.
ISAIAH 43:10-11
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
Jesus speaks in
JOHN 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sin
So why do you keep quoting the text when you say not to depend on it? Whatever “spirit” you are depending on is not the Holy Spirit.
You clearly don’t understand that Paul is talking about the letter of the law, not about the words of the New Testament.