When are we saved ?

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OIC1965 said:
I didn't say the verse mentioned "before the foundation of the world". You're adding to my words. What I said is that this passage speaks of God choosing in a salvific context, and vocational call is nowhere to be found in the context.

It also talks about the type of people that God calls TO SALVATION. The Gospel is tailor made to draw those who have been made humble, poor in spirit, etc. Those are good gifts, and every good gift comes down from the Father of Lights, right?

1 Corinthians 2;4 shows that the Spirit indeed does work with the Gospel to draw people, which you have flatly denied in the past.
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Where does it say they were Chosen in a salvific sense? ( And what do you mean by that ? ) That's you begging the question. Was Gideon chosen before he was born to lead an army ,or after he was born ? were all gentiles chosen to be saved before or after birth ? Were certain churches chosen to do something before they were born or after ? Was Jonas chosen to go to Ninevah before or after he was born . And on and on and on ....
 
OIC1965 said:
I didn't say the verse mentioned "before the foundation of the world". You're adding to my words. What I said is that this passage speaks of God choosing in a salvific context, and vocational call is nowhere to be found in the context.

It also talks about the type of people that God calls TO SALVATION. The Gospel is tailor made to draw those who have been made humble, poor in spirit, etc. Those are good gifts, and every good gift comes down from the Father of Lights, right?

1 Corinthians 2;4 shows that the Spirit indeed does work with the Gospel to draw people, which you have flatly denied in the past.
Click to expand...
I have a verse that ACTUALLY says the Father draws before the cross . I have a verse that actually says the Son draws all men . Please show me the verse that actually says the Holy Spirit ' draws ' please. Not inference . DRAWS ? I.ll wait .
 
OIC1965 said:
I didn't say the verse mentioned "before the foundation of the world". You're adding to my words. What I said is that this passage speaks of God choosing in a salvific context, and vocational call is nowhere to be found in the context.

It also talks about the type of people that God calls TO SALVATION. The Gospel is tailor made to draw those who have been made humble, poor in spirit, etc. Those are good gifts, and every good gift comes down from the Father of Lights, right?

1 Corinthians 2;4 shows that the Spirit indeed does work with the Gospel to draw people, which you have flatly denied in the past.
Click to expand...
The Gospel ' Call ' is to both Jews and Gentiles . The good and bad alike .
 
OIC1965 said:
Looking at context is not begging the question. Paul says nothing about vocational calling in the context. The whole context is about salvific calling. That's the thing. Your system is so rigid that you can't even see what the Bible is clearly saying.

Nothing about vocational calling. The whole context is about salvation, chapters ONE AND TWO. Look at verse 23-24. Paul is clearly taliking about calling to salvation, not calling to service. Paul contrasts Jews and Greeks and those that are called. He is not talking merely God determining to save both Greeks and Jews. Context reveals to us that he is talking about the types of people that are called. The Gospel is tailor made to draw people that are poor in spirit, humble, etc. (I wonder how they get to that state, HMMM...)It is repugnant to the proud, the rich in spirit, etc. God designed it this way. He designed the Gospel to be attractive to the meek and humble and repugnant to the strong and proud souls, that no flesh should boast.

Then in chapter two he clearly states that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. And in chapter two, verse 4 He says that he did not come with eloquent words of man's wisdom, but in the demonstration of the Spirit and power. So much for your claim that the Spirit has nothing to do with the drawing of people to the Gospel.
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Not so many mighty are chosen because the Gospel does not appeal to the mighty , the intellectual, the wisdom of this world . Thats all Paul's point is ..We can see this when we look at ourselves and our brothers and sisters. The Gospel is not attractive to the Darwin s , the Dawkins , the College professors ect .Thats why Paul preached the Gospel not with man's wisdom.In corinth wisdom was the great sport of the day . Men were judged on there rhetoric and Oratory skills ect . The Gospel completely is in opposition to mans wisdom .
 
OIC1965 said:
I didn't say the verse mentioned "before the foundation of the world". You're adding to my words. What I said is that this passage speaks of God choosing in a salvific context, and vocational call is nowhere to be found in the context.

It also talks about the type of people that God calls TO SALVATION. The Gospel is tailor made to draw those who have been made humble, poor in spirit, etc. Those are good gifts, and every good gift comes down from the Father of Lights, right?

1 Corinthians 2;4 shows that the Spirit indeed does work with the Gospel to draw people, which you have flatly denied in the past.
Click to expand...
The ' type " of people God calls is the humble . The Gospel leaves no room for boasting . God is making the rules here.
 
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throughfaith said:
Nope its that I'm trying not to use low resolution and speak in generalities and inductive reasoning . The inductive method is how we should read . There is no verse that says the Holy Spirit draws . ( inspite of what Pink told the calvinists in his influential book . ) You keep using low resolution and going into inductive reasoning in how your interpreting each verse .
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What does 1corinthians 2:4 teach us about the Spirit’s part in the Gospel proclamation?
 
throughfaith said:
Not so many mighty are chosen because the Gospel does not appeal to the mighty , the intellectual, the wisdom of this world . Thats all Paul's point is ..We can see this when we look at ourselves and our brothers and sisters. The Gospel is not attractive to the Darwin s , the Dawkins , the College professors ect .Thats why Paul preached the Gospel not with man's wisdom.In corinth wisdom was the great sport of the day . Men were judged on there rhetoric and Oratory skills ect . The Gospel completely is in opposition to mans wisdom .
Click to expand...

Do men’s hearts sometimes change to become more receptive of the Gospel? How does this change come about?
 
throughfaith said:
Where does it say they were Chosen in a salvific sense? ( And what do you mean by that ? ) That's you begging the question. Was Gideon chosen before he was born to lead an army ,or after he was born ? were all gentiles chosen to be saved before or after birth ? Were certain churches chosen to do something before they were born or after ? Was Jonas chosen to go to Ninevah before or after he was born . And on and on and on ....
Click to expand...

Foreknowledge, foreknowledge, foreknowledge

I am not an open theist. Nor was Paul.
 
throughfaith said:
I have a verse that ACTUALLY says the Father draws before the cross . I have a verse that actually says the Son draws all men . Please show me the verse that actually says the Holy Spirit ' draws ' please. Not inference . DRAWS ? I.ll wait .
Click to expand...

Do you actually think the Father and Son act independantly of one another and independantly of the Spirit?!!!

That would be serious error.
 
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