What is a church?
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Its been 40 so I'm mixing up the Voltron Force with the G-force and the Battle of the Planets (of which keyop was the smallest (and the only name I remember from all of them put together) although I kept up with both series (only just Lion Force) even though neither ran very long. But these both rightly summarizes the argument that either you are Voltron or you go to Voltron, and either you are the G-force or you go to the G-force.
But the problem often presents itself in the frustration of those that keep going to (what they think is) the G-force to become the G-force but are never given any transmuters but people keep going because they really really want a transmuter and they've been told this is where they can get one but only end up getting the run around. And it turns out its just Zoltar's take over
But, you know as they say about art reflecting life. I mean, even having been 'inspired' by a japanese anime series, similar to the man with no name series being likewise inspired, it's like everybody inherently "knows" about that 'something wonderful' about life.... I mean, Jesus would no doubt be a master samurai, ninja, or kung-fu artist if he had the mind to be, and even now if He so much as willed to be. Certainly, He wouldn't go to the masters, unless he wanted to teach them a thing or two, I mean, they could learn from Him!
The church is in a weak state though, isn't it? Is it actually of any effect? Or is it just that I just can't see it rightly? Anywhere. Signed, Discouraged.
But the problem often presents itself in the frustration of those that keep going to (what they think is) the G-force to become the G-force but are never given any transmuters but people keep going because they really really want a transmuter and they've been told this is where they can get one but only end up getting the run around. And it turns out its just Zoltar's take over
But, you know as they say about art reflecting life. I mean, even having been 'inspired' by a japanese anime series, similar to the man with no name series being likewise inspired, it's like everybody inherently "knows" about that 'something wonderful' about life....
I mean, Jesus would no doubt be a master samurai, ninja, or kung-fu artist if he had the mind to be, and even now if He so much as willed to be. Certainly, He wouldn't go to the masters, unless he wanted to teach them a thing or two, I mean, they could learn from Him!The church is in a weak state though, isn't it? Is it actually of any effect? Or is it just that I just can't see it rightly? Anywhere. Signed, Discouraged.
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Its been 40 so I'm mixing up the Voltron Force with the G-force and the Battle of the Planets (of which keyop was the smallest (and the only name I remember from all of them put together) although I kept up with both series (only just Lion Force) even though neither ran very long. But these both rightly summarizes the argument that either you are Voltron or you go to Voltron, and either you are the G-force or you go to the G-force.
But the problem often presents itself in the frustration of those that keep going to (what they think is) the G-force to become the G-force but are never given any transmuters but people keep going because they really really want a transmuter and they've been told this is where they can get one but only end up getting the run around. And it turns out its just Zoltar's take over
But, you know as they say about art reflecting life. I mean, even having been 'inspired' by a japanese anime series, similar to the man with no name series being likewise inspired, it's like everybody inherently "knows" about that 'something wonderful' about life.... I mean, Jesus would no doubt be a master samurai, ninja, or kung-fu artist if he had the mind to be, and even now if He so much as willed to be. Certainly, He wouldn't go to the masters, unless he wanted to teach them a thing or two, I mean, they could learn from Him!
The church is in a weak state though, isn't it? Is it actually of any effect? Or is it just that I just can't see it rightly? Anywhere. Signed, Discouraged.
But the problem often presents itself in the frustration of those that keep going to (what they think is) the G-force to become the G-force but are never given any transmuters but people keep going because they really really want a transmuter and they've been told this is where they can get one but only end up getting the run around. And it turns out its just Zoltar's take over
But, you know as they say about art reflecting life. I mean, even having been 'inspired' by a japanese anime series, similar to the man with no name series being likewise inspired, it's like everybody inherently "knows" about that 'something wonderful' about life....
I mean, Jesus would no doubt be a master samurai, ninja, or kung-fu artist if he had the mind to be, and even now if He so much as willed to be. Certainly, He wouldn't go to the masters, unless he wanted to teach them a thing or two, I mean, they could learn from Him!The church is in a weak state though, isn't it? Is it actually of any effect? Or is it just that I just can't see it rightly? Anywhere. Signed, Discouraged.
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For a graduate class, I once wrote a paper on pervasive themes in Japanese cartoons (anime) that reflect their cultural values.
Speedreading through the background of the first adaptation of Gatchaman to American audiences, I noted a description of that force as "five as one," and can see how that cultural value would have an impactful influence on efficiency. If each individual's personal goal isn't properly aligned with the entity's goal, and vis versa, then efficiency falls to the wayside, and management cutting essential corners will only lead to eventual recall of the entire line of production just to fix one faulty brake pedal, steering mechanism, or other system of operation. I.e., if there is a breakdown in the integrity of the minister of plumbing, then that will severely dump on the efficiency of the floor tech, and so on, all because someone insisted on having their pork and confounding the plumber.
Indeed.
In the U.S. culture, individualism is preferred over all other form of cooperation. That is one reason the people here are weak and sick: they lack cohesiveness. We focus too much on what makes us different when we need to focus on sameness. When this is prompted by the love of Christ, then a culture that promotes grace and healing emerges.
In the U.S. culture, individualism is preferred over all other form of cooperation. That is one reason the people here are weak and sick: they lack cohesiveness. We focus too much on what makes us different when we need to focus on sameness. When this is prompted by the love of Christ, then a culture that promotes grace and healing emerges.
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What the bride of Christ depicted in prophecy will be is the whole unity of the real redeemed believers who are brought to the restored creation in which all of the creation that were groaning for it will have their hope fulfilled there. This whole unity of real redeemed believers there ever were who will be there are the whole church, not an organization or body recognized by any authority in this world, yet recognized by God. It is a meaningful body to us with what we just might see with what local congregation we are with that would have unity as the local church for us. They would all there need to be such real believers, who are in Christ, and with transformed lives, for that.
I actually understand Hebrews 10:25 differently:
It’s actually “the assembling of ourselves together”. The writer did not use the word for “meeting”. He used a different word, a word only used one more time in scripture when it references our assembling to the Lord.
“Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him…”
I certainly support fellowship among the saints and getting together often. The scriptures are clear about this.
The passage is also set against “a Day”. Capital D. “When you see the Day approaching”. This is not Sunday. This is the return of the Lord. We should be more earnest to walk in the assembling of ourselves together as the Day approaches. The reason is obvious: there are dark day leading up to the Lord’s return. The exhortation and encouragement from the Lord will come to the Body through the body. If we are not fit together and if we cannot discern the Lord in others we will not receive what is given to the Body.
And it is the Holy Spirit who baptizes us into the Body of Christ - which is to say - He determines our place among the saints.
Now, this happens locally, in small groups, and this occurs in cities: e.g. in the city of Corinth the saints would occasionally gather all at once but they would also gather in smaller groups in the households of Chloe or Aristobulus or Narcissus or Stephanas, etc.
Paul admonished the saints in Corinth for sectarianism, preferring to be divided according to men of the Lord who were sent to them…
“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
“For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided?”
Do you think the saints today declare, with a clear conscience, “I am Baptist” or “I am Lutheran” or “I am Calvinist” or “I am Evangelist” or “I am of Christ”? I do. I think they think nothing of it. They think it’s normal and even appropriate.
We should be asking "This person in Christ - who are they to the Body of Christ?"
If they are a prophet we should listen to them. If they are an apostle we should be prepared to understand mysteries or be foundationally corrected about certain beliefs. If they are our pastor, we should heed their direction, etc. This is how saints "assemble themselves together" - each doing their part for the betterment of the whole.
Now, imagine you have a doctrine that refuses prophets and apostles. What chance do the saints have - under that doctrine - to assemble as the Body of Christ as the Day of the Lord approaches?
It’s actually “the assembling of ourselves together”. The writer did not use the word for “meeting”. He used a different word, a word only used one more time in scripture when it references our assembling to the Lord.
“Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him…”
I certainly support fellowship among the saints and getting together often. The scriptures are clear about this.
The passage is also set against “a Day”. Capital D. “When you see the Day approaching”. This is not Sunday. This is the return of the Lord. We should be more earnest to walk in the assembling of ourselves together as the Day approaches. The reason is obvious: there are dark day leading up to the Lord’s return. The exhortation and encouragement from the Lord will come to the Body through the body. If we are not fit together and if we cannot discern the Lord in others we will not receive what is given to the Body.
And it is the Holy Spirit who baptizes us into the Body of Christ - which is to say - He determines our place among the saints.
Now, this happens locally, in small groups, and this occurs in cities: e.g. in the city of Corinth the saints would occasionally gather all at once but they would also gather in smaller groups in the households of Chloe or Aristobulus or Narcissus or Stephanas, etc.
Paul admonished the saints in Corinth for sectarianism, preferring to be divided according to men of the Lord who were sent to them…
“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
“For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided?”
Do you think the saints today declare, with a clear conscience, “I am Baptist” or “I am Lutheran” or “I am Calvinist” or “I am Evangelist” or “I am of Christ”? I do. I think they think nothing of it. They think it’s normal and even appropriate.
We should be asking "This person in Christ - who are they to the Body of Christ?"
If they are a prophet we should listen to them. If they are an apostle we should be prepared to understand mysteries or be foundationally corrected about certain beliefs. If they are our pastor, we should heed their direction, etc. This is how saints "assemble themselves together" - each doing their part for the betterment of the whole.
Now, imagine you have a doctrine that refuses prophets and apostles. What chance do the saints have - under that doctrine - to assemble as the Body of Christ as the Day of the Lord approaches?
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It's the manner of assembling that is the issue. The context is not "meeting together". It is "assembling together" as in neatly fit to make one from the many.
For example:
a meeting of car parts may produce all the parts of a car in a room
if they are properly assembled you would have a fully functioning automobile.
There are many buildings full of car parts on Sundays.
The Greek word for meeting is synántisi
The Greek word used for assembling in the verse above is episynagōgē
Episynagōgē is used only one other place in scripture... when Paul writes about the return of the Lord.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him..."
For example:
a meeting of car parts may produce all the parts of a car in a room
if they are properly assembled you would have a fully functioning automobile.
There are many buildings full of car parts on Sundays.
The Greek word for meeting is synántisi
The Greek word used for assembling in the verse above is episynagōgē
Episynagōgē is used only one other place in scripture... when Paul writes about the return of the Lord.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him..."
Hebrew 10:16-19
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus.
Hebrew 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
We are assembled or caught up together in the throne room with God,by the blood of Jesus now.That happen with the first believers in Jesus because the throne room is within.The kingdom of God is within.It is the renewing of the mind and the heart.
That's where the gathering/assembling takes place.Not in a physical Church but a spiritual one.the scriptures are a witness to this.
Revelation 12:4-5
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus.
Hebrew 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
We are assembled or caught up together in the throne room with God,by the blood of Jesus now.That happen with the first believers in Jesus because the throne room is within.The kingdom of God is within.It is the renewing of the mind and the heart.
That's where the gathering/assembling takes place.Not in a physical Church but a spiritual one.the scriptures are a witness to this.
Revelation 12:4-5
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
The primary message of Hebrews 10 IS about acknowledging how the Spirit has assembled the Body of Christ. By this we “no longer know a person by their flesh” but by their spirit.
“Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.”
Thinking it’s about meeting together creates expensive buildings of little value.
Understanding it’s about acknowledging the Spirit’s authority to place and promote men and women within the Body creates a Man in the stature of Christ.
This is essential to realizing Ephesians 4:
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Meetings without this understanding are detrimental to the Body because people in them believe something was accomplished for the Lord when nothing was.
“Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.”
Thinking it’s about meeting together creates expensive buildings of little value.
Understanding it’s about acknowledging the Spirit’s authority to place and promote men and women within the Body creates a Man in the stature of Christ.
This is essential to realizing Ephesians 4:
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Meetings without this understanding are detrimental to the Body because people in them believe something was accomplished for the Lord when nothing was.
I agree that managing church finances requires wisdom, and of course I agree with one of my favorite Scripture passages that you quoted, but I had the good fortune of attending a church that applied both truths to its ministry. That church began as a suburb mission of a downtown church that also spawned a few other children churches. My church grew from 50 planters to 500 within about ten years in three iterations, with the old sanctuary being renovated into educational space each time as a larger sanctuary was built. One of the most remarkable things is that the church was permitted to have a VBS promotional parade through new neighborhoods for several years. I still have some of the crafts I made at VBS.
I am sad to say that after I grew up and moved on, the church decided to become a megachurch instead of following the example of its own mother church, and I do doubt the value of competitive megachurches.
I am sad to say that after I grew up and moved on, the church decided to become a megachurch instead of following the example of its own mother church, and I do doubt the value of competitive megachurches.
The church is the body of born again believers who serve God and his will towards mankind.
Not only behind the pulpit or in the meeting place but have given their lives to God's authority.
Opposing evil, demonstrating kindness and mercy emphasizing love being the greatest gift.
Not willing that any should perish but all come to know Christ Jesus. For this is the heart and work of the father.
It really took me by surprise to see some say that baptism is not necessary....if Jesus included it in the commission then it should be so.
That's not my opinion that's a fact.
Your and my salvation stops at the gate and it's up to the Lord Jesus if you enter in or not. Do you really want to explain why you thought baptism was not necessary when you had every opportunity to be baptized.
Jesus himself being baptized are you above your master? Not saying it's a salvation issue but then again Jesus made it a issue.
Not only behind the pulpit or in the meeting place but have given their lives to God's authority.
Opposing evil, demonstrating kindness and mercy emphasizing love being the greatest gift.
Not willing that any should perish but all come to know Christ Jesus. For this is the heart and work of the father.
It really took me by surprise to see some say that baptism is not necessary....if Jesus included it in the commission then it should be so.
That's not my opinion that's a fact.
Your and my salvation stops at the gate and it's up to the Lord Jesus if you enter in or not. Do you really want to explain why you thought baptism was not necessary when you had every opportunity to be baptized.
Jesus himself being baptized are you above your master? Not saying it's a salvation issue but then again Jesus made it a issue.