Understanding God’s election

[Pilgrimshope]

The author of 2nd Peter had a very low bar for what qualifies as righteous.

The apostle Peter ?

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exactly as the apostle Paul described in his letters.

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[rogerg]

Exactly as the apostle Paul described in his letters.

Ducking.

 

[John146]

Christ's atonement for John's original audience was effectual, since they actually believed. Therefore, the same must be true of Gentiles throughout the world.

The same must be true if you view scripture through the eyes of John Calvin.

 

[John146]

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Of course, Paul is talking to those who are already saved. The Holy Spirit dwells within them.

 

[John146]

If you do this, then I'll do that...choose.

Jeremiah 18:
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

 

[GWH]

Specifically, how do you believe someone becomes saved?

I missed my cue, but better late than never:

The normative way of stating how to be saved (the kerygma/GRFS) in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4, EZK 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Although perfection is not achieved in this life, the necessity of learning the didache in order to strive for perfection indicates the need for perseverance or to keep on learning and growing spiritually until we die physically (Phil. 3:12-14).

 

[rogerg]

I missed my cue, but better late than never:

The normative way of stating how to be saved (the kerygma/GRFS) in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4, EZK 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

Although perfection is not achieved in this life, the necessity of learning the didache in order to strive for perfection indicates the need for perseverance or to keep on learning and growing spiritually until we die physically (Phil. 3:12-14).

Thanks, appreciate it, but the question was actually for Inquisitor. I was curious how he specifically believes it occurs.

 

[Rufus]

That's contextually incorrect.
Your ideology seems to espouse Universal Reconciliation.
That's not what Jesus taught.

Well, John in 1Jn 2:2 is talking about PEOPLE, not the world system. He's not teaching that Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for a system! God atoned for the sins of human beings.

 

[Rufus]

Because there are a few facts about Calvinism that most do not understand.

Calvinism basically states that God's decision is final and you cannot do anything to change
His will. Your destiny is out of your hands!

And good thing it is! If it wasn't no one would be saved; for no one desires to come to the Light to be saved since they love the darkness so much. And don't you know that each of us was at one time an object of God's wrath by nature!? If God didn't change anyone's nature, we'd all be hell-bound!

 

[Magenta]

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out
your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

 

[Magenta]

And good thing it is! If it wasn't no one would be saved; for no one desires to come to the Light to be
saved since they love the darkness so much. And don't you know that each of us was at one time an
object of God's wrath by nature!? If God didn't change anyone's nature, we'd all be hell-bound!

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord

 

[Magenta]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[Rufus]

Negative Cameron, only elect babies are saved and they are a minority.

And how do you know that all babies aren't God's elect? But it's good to see that you recognize and acknowledge that unconditional election is the judicial basis of their salvation -- just as it is for all mankind.

 

[Rufus]

If a righteous person could be found then Abraham wins.

King David had a choice of three judgements for his sin, famine, fleeing, pestilence.

God's will would be determined solely by David's decision.

David chose according to God's will for him. You keep forgetting that God's will and man's are totally compatible.

Abimelech chose (determined) to not violate Sarah (Gen 20) and he took credit for his righteous choice to which God did not object -- but at the same time God did inform the king that He was the ultimate reason for why he acted wisely toward Sarah. God's power worked effectually in the king's heart. And it was so subtle that the king never knew.

 

[HeIsHere]

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.


NOT 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT THE ELECT should perish, but that ONLY THE ELECT should come to repentance.

 

[rogerg]

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.


NOT 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT THE ELECT should perish, but that ONLY THE ELECT should come to repentance.

Actually, it is saying they were of the elect. The 'us-ward" of 3:9 was qualified and limited to the "beloved" of 3:8 - not to everyone. Those who comprised the beloved, were identified and defined in Peter's salutation of 2 Pe 1.

[2Pe 3:8-9 KJV]
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The salutation of the book demonstrates that Peter was addressing the elect/beloved. It was based not upon themselves, but solely upon the actions of God.

[2Pe 1:1, 3-4 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: ...
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Rufus]

Sin is age dependent.
Babies and infants aren't accountable.

If that were true, then how is God just in decreeing the premature deaths of probably billions of underage humans to pay the penalty for sins they didn't actually commit?

 

[Rufus]

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.


NOT 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT THE ELECT should perish, but that ONLY THE ELECT should come to repentance.

Now you're catching on! After all, both of Peter's epistles were written to the elect (1Pet 1:1). Besides, God is only longsuffering toward the recipients ("us" or "you" depending of translation) of the second epistle. The text does not teach that God is patient towards each and every person in the world.

 

[Rufus]

Nevertheless God did, in fact, save some from that city.

God could have destroyed Sodom with Lot and His daughters in it, but He did not.

The righteous escaped.

Translate: God discriminated between the righteous and the wicked -- just like he did when he redeemed Israel from Egypt.