Rufus cannot understand Jesus unless Rufus was chosen from eternity to know Jesus.
Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Rufus cannot understand Jesus unless Rufus was chosen from eternity to know Jesus.
I don't believe in Total Depravity because people can consider Jesus and His life without
the Holy Spirit.
You just identified the point I was making.
the unsaved uncircumised-in-heart person who can neither receive nor comprehend the things of God
They can comprehend the things of God.
They can be scholars of the New Testament and lecture Christians without believing in Jesus.
They can comprehend the things of God and better than most Christians can.
They can comprehend the things of God.
Sure, everyone knows God exists. Comprehending the things of God moves well beyond that.
You may as well tell me everyone knows Jesus. You would be just as wrong.
Head knowledge does not equate to believing in your heart.
You are deceived.
With the heart one believes.
The stony uncircumcised hostile-to-God heart does not believe. The changed heart is enabled to.
Did you circumcise your own heart? It seems some people here believe they did.
But once again this contradicts what Scripture explicitly states.
It's not about the messenger Magenta, it's all about the context that every verse is surrounded by.
You cannot cherry pick a verse (Romans 8:29-30) and build a theology on that verse.
You cannot bark about the sovereignty of Jesus over His creation and ignore God's will.
Ignore God's unconditional love for everyone and apply a double predestination.
We do not comprehend the way God works and we live within that mystery.
Cherry pick and bark all you like while you ignore key verses and falsely accuse me.
It hardly touches on the truth of my reality nor describes in any way what I believe.
You are clueless.
Back in the first century the Jews knew all about God but few Jews knew Jesus.
The Gentiles were utterly ignorant of God and His Son Jesus.
The Gentiles could hear the gospel and not understand it.
Hearing the gospel and believing in Jesus is not the actual gospel.
You can hear it but unless you accept the truth of the gospel, you cannot receive
the seal of God's adoption of you.
You can even preach the gospel without having the Holy Spirit.
People were doing that in Paul's era and writing letters to the churches.
People are not blind and stupid when it comes to the revelation of Jesus.
Like I said, you are clueless. You really ought to stick to what you know... If you looked you could find many more that prove youself wrong but I doubt you are really interested in the truth of the matter having decided with no evidence at all that you know something you do not.
Yeah, those two look the same but they are different posts...
You are welcome. Now stop falsely accusing me.
Please give me chapter and verse on God's "unconditional" love.
And I'm also still waiting for an answer to my question re Romans: Did Paul write to Jewish believers or unbelievers or both?
Secondly, I'm still waiting on your interpretation of Rom 1:13, as well.
Thanks.
Adam and Eve didn’t die spiritually they became as gods knowing good and evil and it wasn’t meant for them to know that . Here’s what happened after they ate the fruit and hid from God
“Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
( he deals out the punishments judgements and curses )
….And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:2-11, 22-24 KJV
They hadn’t yet died in any way but they had become as gods knowing both good and also evil. This meant now thier nakedness became inappropriate to them because they now considered not only the good they’d been living with God but now they also considered the fleshly nature of the body and feelings we feel and pleasures we lust after. And because of the evil now within us we had to be cast out of his holy presence which consumes evil by its “ holy “ nature .
The answer later to the issue would be Christ Jesus the spotless and holy lamb sacrificed for us , who’s holiness purifies sinners who repent and turn to him in faith again when they hear and believe the gospel
The gospels promise would being Gods presence back to us to be with us
He isn’t replacing a dead spirit spirits fall asleep at death in some cases and rest with God in others and sadly some are tormented in hell until the judgement when all souls are raised up to be judged.
he is come to us to lead and guide us home to him , cleansing and refreshing and purifying our formerly corrupted spirit so we don’t suffer his wrath. The Gospel is about him coming back to dwell with the person who believes in Jesus. By the Gospel he sent out into the world.
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
John 14:15-17, 25-26 KJV
because of our flesh we have to die because of sin even after we are “ saved “ our body is already as good as dead and can’t inherit Gods kingdom . just a matter of time for our flesh body but our spirits can be saved and live forever with Jesus still .
Some spirit falls asleep and the flesh runs the show….but most serve both spirit and flesh at times without even knowing or realizing it’s the human condition some spend tbier lives doing bad things to others and go to jails and prisons sometimes other times they prosper from it .
as other person makes better choices works hard lives right doesnt harm other people pays back everyone they owe or have borrowed shares what they have ect ect and mostly they do pretty well and see happy and successful have children and so on
the reason is because they make choices and choose pathways in life from wherever they begin . Two siblings begin in the same place same treatment and support .
Ones choices may lead them to success and happiness and fruitfulness .
The others choices may lead them to struggle and sorrow and addiction and shame and heartbreak
The holy ghost comes as Gods presence within us to lead us and be there with us and help us along the way as we believe and persevere and follow the lord
Adam died later but of course Gods character is mercy and Grace truth and atonement for our faults so
“and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Genesis 5:5 KJV
man has a living spirit mankind was originally the son of God
“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
Luke 3:38 KJV
The holy ghost comes to be with us until the judgement it’s our redeemer within Christ in us the hope of glory ect
I noticed. Non-reformed folks tend to get themselves easily twisted up into knots of their own making.And he just contradicted himself.
(Balance of post cut because it did not answer my questions.) Here are those specific questions again:
The only person who came into this world spiritually alive was Adam, otherwise it would not have been possible for him to spiritually die on the day he sinned. Death logically presupposes antecedent life. If no one is born spiritually dead, why does anyone need to be born again? Why does anyone need to be resurrected (i.e. made alive by God when we WERE once spiritually dead)?
Please make a concerted effort to not get off on tangents.
First comes the physical, then the spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:20 and 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam a
life-giving spirit. In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Don't think that I do not notice you putting all of the blame for sin only on the male--you sexist! :^)First comes the physical, then the spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:20 and 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam a
life-giving spirit. In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Correct. The physical, earthly Adam BECAME a living being after God breathed into Adam the breath of life. God formed Adam's physical form first, then breathed life into him. And there is only one Source of Life!First comes the physical, then the spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:20 and 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam a
life-giving spirit. In Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.