Trinity

[Aaron56]

Nitpicking. Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God. That is clear from the Bible.

I think you are 99.9% in agreement.

 

[Omegatime]

people may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things. Isaiah 45:5

 

[Deuteronomy]

1. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are God.

Hello Aaron, that is correct, and there is only One God & Savior .. e.g. Isaiah 43:10-11. However, this (one and only) Divine Being is "Triune" in nature, a Triune Godhead existing both from and to everlasting as Three Divine Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Question: Is this the core belief of the Trinity? Something else? Assuming it is not appropriate to call them "Gods" is there one title that actually fits the Father, the Son, and the Spirit?

1. Yes, that is the core teaching of the Doctrine of the Trinity (the Trinity is considered to be a Biblical "mystery", of course).

2. As far as the appropriate thing to call them, why not use "God" like the Bible does Of course, you could also use the [singular] "Name" that the Lord Jesus used when He instructed us concerning baptism, and that "name" is, "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". (Or, individually works too, of course, "the Father", "the Son" and/or "the Holy Spirit" .. perhaps this is where the names that we often use for God, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, originated )

Matthew 28​

19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..."​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - here's a little humorous video about a number of the analogies that are used for the Trinity, and why they never work (I still use one or two of them anyway, as I still think they can be helpful at times )

 

[lrs68]

I’m really enjoying the discussion so far.



Why not say “You have lied to the Lord”? What specifically was added by including “Spirit of”?

These are just questions I ask in my head.

Exactly!

 

[Gideon300]

Something else interesting is Acts chapter 5 we have Ananias not giving all the money he made selling his home and Peter said you lied to the Holy Spirit which is God. Then few Verses later tells the wife you lied to the Spirit of the Lord which is Jesus.

So at least in Acts chapter 5 the Holy Spirit, God, Spirit of the Lord which is Jesus are all being used as the same individual Deity.

I heard one Theologian explain it that Jesus could only work with people one on one in Person but in the Spirit He can be everywhere working with millions of people at once. That was an interesting analogy I thought

"The Lord is the Spirit" 2 Corinthians 3:17. There is another "replacement theology" that started with the so-called Toronto Blessing. It says that the Holy Spirit has superseded the Lord Jesus. Of course, they have to ignore a good of the New Testament to come to that conclusion. I don't know about now, but it was promoted by Australia's assemblies of God in the late 90's.

 

[Me_Clay]

"The Lord is the Spirit" 2 Corinthians 3:17. There is another "replacement theology" that started with the so-called Toronto Blessing. It says that the Holy Spirit has superseded the Lord Jesus. Of course, they have to ignore a good of the New Testament to come to that conclusion. I don't know about now, but it was promoted by Australia's assemblies of God in the late 90's.

Another false teaching my first time hearing it.

"The Lord is the Spirit" 2 Corinthians 3:17. There is another "replacement theology" that started with the so-called Toronto Blessing. It says that the Holy Spirit has superseded the Lord Jesus. Of course, they have to ignore a good of the New Testament to come to that conclusion. I don't know about now, but it was promoted by Australia's assemblies of God in the late 90's.

."Toronto Blessing?" Sounded like Ellen G White

 

[Me_Clay]

Another false teaching my first time hearing it.

."Toronto Blessing?" Sounded like Ellen G White

Anyone here love God ?

 

[Ceph]

God is one. His creation reflects his worksmanship.
You know how each atom of all material objects are made of 3 nanoparticles? Protons and neutrons are also made of 3 quarks. Electrons hold all things together, and make stuff like magnets and electricity work.

 

[Ceph]

Neutrons are heavier and have no charge.
Protons are lighter and have a positive charge.
Protons repel each other with their charge, but are held together by the neutrons.
Think about how the bible is written, the slightly individual traits of the apostles and their Gospels, their root in the unvaried old-testament cannon, and the spirit that makes it all into one message.

 

[Ceph]

We as individuals, are united by the weight of one God who respects nobody, and are all connected by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gideon300]

Another false teaching my first time hearing it.

."Toronto Blessing?" Sounded like Ellen G White

If anything, worse.

 

[Omegatime]

Something else interesting is Acts chapter 5 we have Ananias not giving all the money he made selling his home and Peter said you lied to the Holy Spirit which is God. Then few Verses later tells the wife you lied to the Spirit of the Lord which is Jesus.

So at least in Acts chapter 5 the Holy Spirit, God, Spirit of the Lord which is Jesus are all being used as the same individual Deity.

I heard one Theologian explain it that Jesus could only work with people one on one in Person but in the Spirit He can be everywhere working with millions of people at once. That was an interesting analogy I thought

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Well done Lrs68--another nugget of truth.

Just turned 77 and the Trinity as being 3 separate persons has no truth for me. Each of must find the truth for themselves as Abraham did.

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[Ouch]

I hope this thread becomes a discussion about the Trinity. These are just some of my observations followed by questions.

1. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are God.
Question: Is this the core belief of the Trinity? Something else? Assuming it is not appropriate to call them "Gods" is there one title that actually fits the Father, the Son, and the Spirit?

2. Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be grasped (Philippians 2:6).
Question: How best can we describe the Trinity without using the word "equal"?

That's all for now. Thank you.

There is ONLY ONE GOD, HIS word,

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Any time men get involved with HIS word and what it says is a problem.

Same as is, why so many different denominations?

When did the trinity start?

The Trinity was not a concept in the early Church but was formally defined through a process that culminated in the First Council of Constantinople in 381 CE, with earlier steps taken at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. The doctrine of one God in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—was established as a core tenet of the Christian faith at these councils after much debate.

First Council of Nicaea (325 CE): This council addressed early disagreements about the nature of Jesus Christ, moving toward an understanding of him as both divine and of the same "substance" as God.

First Council of Constantinople (381 CE): This council solidified the doctrine, and its resulting Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed became the official statement of the Trinity.

Before the Councils: While the word "Trinity" wasn't used, early Christian thinkers and writings explored concepts related to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example, the first recorded use of the Greek word for "Trinity" (\(<<!nav>>Trias<<!/nav>>\)) was by Theophilus of Antioch in about 170 CE, and the Latin term was used by Tertullian in the early third century.

Theology and Philosophy: The development of the doctrine was also influenced by Greek philosophy, particularly Neoplatonism.

So many people follow it today, meaning they follow the men mentioned above.

 

[GWH]

Continued from above post

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father.

Jesus at the right hand of God is a temporary role until His enemies are conquered then He will not be at the right hand that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power be at His right hand because He is the mediator.

And when the saints are with Jesus and His enemies conquered then the Son shall submit to the Father stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

Which His mediator is no longer needed.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.

There is only one throne in heaven not two.

Which is the throne of God and the Lamb God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

You covered about everything. I think the best part was saying, "Not 3 persons of a trinity. But the 3 relationships
God has with His people designated by titles: Father- Creator, and parent of the saints. Son- God's visible relationship
to the saints and Him in visible activity. Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints and Him in invisible activity.
Which the Spirit moved in creation and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in us."

I describe the Triune God similarly: The NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways or as three persons simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).

The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (Matt. 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (John 3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (Rom. 4:11, 8:15, Phil. 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Hebrews 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (John 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (Rom. 1:4, Gal. 2:20, 1Thes. 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (Acts 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (Rom. 8:4-26, 1Cor. 6:19, Eph. 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2Pet. 1:21, Jude 20).

In order to understand the Trinity, it is helpful to discern which aspect or person of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. They may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (Gen. 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1Tim. 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (Rom. 5:5). For example, 1 John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Galatians 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Ephesians 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (Rom. 5:8, Eph. 2:18).

We can denote these distinctions per Scripture by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (Eph. 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (Matt. 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (Eph. 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Eph. 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1Cor. 8:6). A single verse in which all three persons are mentioned and identified with grace, love and fellowship respectively is 2Cor. 13:14.

 

[Ouch]

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God. begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." - The Nicene Creed is still the standard.

When you say "WE", does not me WE.

Curious, why do follow and say "The Nicene Creed is still the standard"

I know it has become the standard but doesn't mean it's true!

Who said follow that grope of men?

 

[homwardbound]

I hope this thread becomes a discussion about the Trinity. These are just some of my observations followed by questions.

1. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit are God.
Question: Is this the core belief of the Trinity? Something else? Assuming it is not appropriate to call them "Gods" is there one title that actually fits the Father, the Son, and the Spirit?

2. Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be grasped (Philippians 2:6).
Question: How best can we describe the Trinity without using the word "equal"?

That's all for now. Thank you.

What no flesh nature can fathom God has done for us through Son to get given God in Holiness for us to do righteously, not counting anything we do righteously as our doing, If God Father and Son do not get all the credit, then it is not of God at all, to me anyways.
For all of me under Law is Dung, Phil 3 really insightful, provided Father God reveals it to anyone as God chooses to: whenever God chooses to for anyone to see it, to grow up into God maturity and eat meat over just drinking milk Hebrews 5:12-6:3

The Three as One? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Son was/is 100% dependant on Daddy, PaPa, Father
I, (Jesus speaking) do nothing or say northing but by me Father's lead. He walked perfectly, 100: dependent on Father. That is the example to us, y'all to do that. Beleive ask and recieve and do new without taking any credit in doing it too, thanking God in it all, talking g no credit to self, thank youFather
So, ask for the comforter, the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you. Choose to help, not have to help. There is a difference

Why do you call me good? Only my Father is good. Now after John the Baptist baptized Jesus, John saw the Dove down on Jesus and heard Father God say, "This is my beloved Son whom I am pleased in, listen to him. The only flesh and blood ever to be accepted by God Father, making the two as Won (One) for us to be adopted in and do love to all, and not fight over things anymore 1 Cor 3.
They are three, yet One in unison. And Jesus says we are to become one with them in them as One as well, not to win, since Jesus won for us to love all in the same mercy and truth of Son given first. Believe God, receive new from God and do new in God's Spirit and Truth, not of the first born nature of flesh and blood anymore reckon self dead Romans 6:12 to be alive in Spirit and Truth of God and then be one with them as Won
This makes them in unison. For men to try to do law or do right, sets me a drift

 

[PennEd]

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Well done Lrs68--another nugget of truth.

Just turned 77 and the Trinity as being 3 separate persons has no truth for me. Each of must find the truth for themselves as Abraham did.

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

This sounds a little bit like you believe in some form of "Modalism".

That is considered heresy by most Christian denoms.

Jesus's Baptism should forever dispel modalism.

All 3 members of the Godhead were separate and present, at the same moment.


It is unclear if this heresy is disqualifying. Perhaps someone else could comment on that.

 

[Omegatime]

This sounds a little bit like you believe in some form of "Modalism".

That is considered heresy by most Christian denoms.

Jesus's Baptism should forever dispel modalism.

All 3 members of the Godhead were separate and present, at the same moment.


It is unclear if this heresy is disqualifying. Perhaps someone else could comment on that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no idea what modalism is but when we use Father, Son, and H S for baptism, if you said Yeshua or Jesus would mean the same to me IMO for they are one

 

[Aaron56]

Really great input so far.

Here are some of my further reflections...

Ephesians 1:22-23 "And He (God the Father) put all things under His (Christ's) feet, and gave Him (Christ) to be head over all things to the church, 23which is His (Christ's) body, the fullness of Him (God the Father) who fills all in all."

I inserted either "God the Father" or "Christ" for the pronouns.

Filling "all in all" is also found here:

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 "Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Notice that this is future tense wherein the Ephesian's passage is present tense. I think the Ephesian's passage is speaking of eternal truths. The Corinthians passage is describing those truths unfolding in time and space.

Let's pluck out verse 27 and 28 to examine them here with inserted names for the pronouns:

For “He (God the Father) has put all things under His (Christ's) feet.” But when He (The Spirit?) says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He (God the Father) who put all things under Him (Christ) is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him (God the Father), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him (God the Father) who put all things under Him (Christ), that God (is this all three?) may be all in all.

Although it can be truthfully said "All things are under Christ's feet" it would seem that we do not yet perceive, or live in, this reality. Also, since such a reality is eternally-based, that is to say "True in heaven", then access to this reality can only be obtained by that which is eternal in the believer: the Spirit of God. This would support this verse just a bit later in 1st Corinthians: "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption."

To carry it further, it seems that everything except the Father is to be made subject to Christ, the Son. But, when the fullness of this is perceived then "the Son Himself will also be subject to Him" to the end that "God may be all in all".

This has additional consequences since "Christ, the Son, is a many-membered being" whose Body is comprised of the saints.

This is also in 1st Corinthians "For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ."

 

[Omegatime]

And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 1:18


I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’