The Tribulation: Part I - Refinement, Not Removal

[vassal]

Hi @vassal ! I just thought of a topic you might like to write about, it's up to you:

Jesus and His sheep - they know and listen to His voice and no other. And versus others who don't listen and follow, etc.

Let me know what you think!


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posted this morning,

Thread 'The Sheep the Father Gave: Known by God, Called by Christ, Kept Forever'

Today at 8:44 AM

From the Father’s Hand to the Shepherd’s Care
​

When Jesus spoke about sheep, He was not using random words. He was opening a picture that began long before He came in the flesh.

In John 10, Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd” (John 10:11). He says His sheep hear His voice, He knows them, and they follow Him (John 10:27). He also says He gives them eternal life, and no one can snatch them out of His hand (John 10:28–29). These words are simple, but they reach back into the Law and the Prophets.

The Lord had already called His people sheep in Ezekiel 34...

• vassal
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

• 

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

i think i explained this before but it is easier for me to explain it again;

Let us read it slowly.

In Matthew 24:37–39 Jesus says:

“As the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be… they were eating and drinking… until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away.”

So who was taken in the flood?

The wicked were taken away by judgment. They were swept away. Noah and his family were left alive. They remained.

Jesus then says in Matthew 24:40–41, “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.”

The key is the comparison. Jesus said, “As the days of Noah were.” In Noah’s day, the ones taken were taken in destruction. The ones left were preserved.

This pattern is also seen in Luke 17:26–30. Jesus again compares it to Noah and also to Lot. In Lot’s day, fire fell and destroyed the wicked. The righteous were spared. When the disciples asked, “Where, Lord?” Jesus answered, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together” (Luke 17:37). That language points to judgment, not rescue.

So before the flood, the ones taken were taken in judgment. The ones left were the faithful.

Jesus is warning people to be ready, not assuming that being “taken” always means blessing. In the days of Noah, being left inside the ark was life. Being taken by the waters was death.

That is the pattern He Himself gave.

Also note when God shut in Noah and the Flood, the judgement of the wicked, began.

God decreed 120 years for Noah to build the ark AND give time for the wicked to turn to God and away from sin.

So when did God shut Noah into the ark and start the Flood on the wicked? On the LAST DAY of the 120 year grace period. God did not shut Noah in several years before the flood began.

That's why Lord Jesus said the end times will be like in the days of Noah.


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[vassal]

I'm asking, why the last generation of Christians, but not the previous generations? If we say this is what is required to rule with Christ (ala @Vassel), we're saying that only this generation will rule with Christ. Not Paul. Not Stephen. Not Polycarp. And so on. That doesn't sound right to me.

Much love!

Yes, that is a very good question, and Scripture helps us understand it. The key is to separate the idea of reward for ruling with Christ from salvation itself. Jesus’ words about ruling with Him in the kingdom are often about faithfulness in a particular time of testing, not about salvation for the first followers.

Jesus said in Luke 19:17, in the parable of the minas, that the one who was faithful over a little would be given authority over more. Faithfulness is tied to the time and opportunity God gives. Each generation has its own test, and God measures obedience and readiness in that context.

The “last generation” in the tribulation texts refers to the generation alive at the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:34–36). They face the final trial, the tribulation before His return. Scripture often shows that this is a unique period (Matthew 24:21). Those who endure it faithfully are promised special reward (Revelation 2:26–28), but that does not erase or diminish the reward of faithful saints in earlier generations.

Look at Revelation 7:9–14. There is a great multitude from every nation, tribe, and generation standing before the Lamb. They were saved and washed by His blood. Some were martyred long before the final tribulation. They are part of the kingdom and participate in the reign of Christ.

Salvation and ruling with Christ are related but not the same. Salvation is God’s gift to all who believe, keep His word, and follow Him. John 3:16 says whoever believes in Jesus will have everlasting life, and John 8:51 promises that anyone who keeps His word shall never see death. Revelation 7:9–10, 14 shows a great multitude from all nations and generations standing before the Lamb, washed by His blood. This includes Paul, Stephen, Polycarp, and countless other faithful saints; all are saved and part of God’s eternal kingdom.

Ruling with Christ on earth, however, is tied to faithfulness during the final period before His return. Revelation 2:26–28 promises authority over the nations to those who overcome and keep His works to the end, and Matthew 24:13 emphasizes that endurance through the last trial brings reward. Luke 19:17, 19 shows that those faithful over little are given authority over more, highlighting that reward aligns with the opportunity and test God gives in that generation.

The “last generation” is singled out because the promise of ruling with Christ refers to those faithful during the final trial before His return. Earlier saints, while saved, were not present for that specific opportunity. Timing matters, not the value of their salvation. As in Noah’s day (Matthew 24:37–41) or Lot’s day (Luke 17:26–30), some are taken in judgment, others are preserved. Revelation 20:4 further shows that those martyred for the word of God are raised and given authority, confirming that reward is for those faithful in their appointed time.

All believers are saved and part of the eternal kingdom, but those alive and faithful in the last generation receive the special role of ruling with Christ on earth. It is the timing of the test that defines this reward, not the worthiness of any previous generation.

So Scripture supports both:

• All faithful believers of every age are saved and part of the kingdom (John 3:16; Revelation 7:9).
• A special reward of ruling with Christ is for those who endure the last trial and remain faithful in that generation (Revelation 2:26–28; Matthew 24:13).

It is not exclusion, it is about specific timing of authority during His coming, not about who ultimately enters His kingdom.

 

[vassal]

Also note when God shut in Noah and the Flood, the judgement of the wicked, began.

God decreed 120 years for Noah to build the ark AND give time for the wicked to turn to God and away from sin.

So when did God shut Noah into the ark and start the Flood on the wicked? On the LAST DAY of the 120 year grace period. God did not shut Noah in several years before the flood began.

That's why Lord Jesus said the end times will be like in the days of Noah.


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excellent points! thank you for adding.

 

[Psalm1]

i think i explained this before but it is easier for me to explain it again;

Let us read it slowly.

In Matthew 24:37–39 Jesus says:

“As the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be… they were eating and drinking… until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away.”

So who was taken in the flood?

The wicked were taken away by judgment. They were swept away. Noah and his family were left alive. They remained.

Jesus then says in Matthew 24:40–41, “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.”

The key is the comparison. Jesus said, “As the days of Noah were.” In Noah’s day, the ones taken were taken in destruction. The ones left were preserved.

This pattern is also seen in Luke 17:26–30. Jesus again compares it to Noah and also to Lot. In Lot’s day, fire fell and destroyed the wicked. The righteous were spared. When the disciples asked, “Where, Lord?” Jesus answered, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together” (Luke 17:37). That language points to judgment, not rescue.

So before the flood, the ones taken were taken in judgment. The ones left were the faithful.

Jesus is warning people to be ready, not assuming that being “taken” always means blessing. In the days of Noah, being left inside the ark was life. Being taken by the waters was death.

That is the pattern He Himself gave.

Context.

Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD one taken one left.
Your model has 50% wicked taken.
The wicked taken before the flood?
Pretrib wicked raptured ?
The righteous left behind before the flood?

Re read it.
Read the context.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Context.

Jesus said BEFORE THE FLOOD one taken one left.
Your model has 50% wicked taken.
The wicked taken before the flood?
Pretrib wicked raptured ?
The righteous left behind before the flood?

Re read it.
Read the context.

Jesus NEVER said "before the flood," but when the flood actually came.

Matthew 24:39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

You also don't read carefully.

He only nentioned Luke 17:26–30 as having the pattern that the wicked get taken away, not that it is a 50% model - that was you being careless in your reading his post.

So, "one taken, one left" refers to the flood event itself, not something that happens before the flood. The wicked were taken (destroyed), and the righteous were left (saved). This parallels Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 24:40–41, where "one taken" means taken away in judgment, not raptured to heaven.


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[BBerean]

I came to the same conclusion a few days ago....

 

[BBerean]

If people will not hear God s truth , it’s unlikely they will just read about the Pharisees their contradictions where out of this world . Did some get saved later ? Maybe under Peter’s preaching 1000s of Jews did . Read John chapter Nine about the blind man made to see by Jesus ! Absolutely amazing how blind and contradictory the Pharisees were ! A classic example.

 

[JayWalker]

Well I'll be leaving when the rapture takes place.

Hope you all enjoy all the crazy bad stuff that happens in the tribulation period!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If people will not hear God s truth , it’s unlikely they will just read about the Pharisees their contradictions where out of this world . Did some get saved later ? Maybe under Peter’s preaching 1000s of Jews did . Read John chapter Nine about the blind man made to see by Jesus ! Absolutely amazing how blind and contradictory the Pharisees were ! A classic example.

I agree! Nicodemus was a stark contrast to the rest of the Pharisees. He didn't just go along with them. He wanted to know who Jesus really was for himself. By the end of the story, he was boldy preparing Jesus's body for burial in assistance to Joseph of Arimathea.

So we know of at least two Pharisees that got saved: Nicodemus and Paul (formerly called Saul). Very few out of so many.

I think it is the same ratio today.


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