The Tribulation: Part I - Refinement, Not Removal

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Good morning Saints,

I saw the mention of 50% taken and 50% left.

Jesus said in Luke 17: 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed.

This is a pre-tribulation verse as no signs will be given. In the Tribulation many many signs are given besides the scriptures.

A few examples

Sun to darkness, moon to blood red
Lord sending Elijah before the Day of the Lord
144,000

Sharing some personal thoughts here.

Weekend Jesus was crucified there was a resurrection but no rapture
The pre-tribulation may not see a resurrection but a rapture of the living only.
A resurrection and a rapture will take place at the reaping of the earth at Rev. 14:14 at 1335th day of the Tribulation
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The 50%

Worldly standards by man says there are about 2.4 billion Christians on the earth today. Jesus sees a different number!

34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together; one will be taken and the other left.”[e] 37 And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the body is, there the eagles[f] will be gathered together.”

When Jesus speaks I take that as gospel:

When Peter stood up and addressed the jews on Pentecost about 3000 souls were saved.

Why about 3000??????

On the first Pentecost about 3000 souls were killed for making the golden calf.

For the Law kill but the Spirit gives life

God is a good book keeper

50% it is
 
Psalm1 said:
QUOTE
"In Matthew 25:1–13, all ten were waiting. All ten slept. The difference was oil. The oil shows readiness, the Spirit, a living faith. But notice this: the bridegroom came once. There is no earlier coming for five and later coming for the rest. When He came, the ready entered. The door was shut.
The parable teaches readiness, not a timeline of removal before tribulation."

Yes all 10 believers were waiting
Yes oil was the difference
Yes Jesus came once...not to the brides house.( earth)
But you skewed the part of the second event where the foolish Christians wanted inclusion.

I m Evers said it teaches Jesus claiming in the parable He will not come postrib.

The postribber dilemma is
1) the SETTING is pretrib.
2) half believers left behind
3) the wise believers go INTO THE MARRIAGE CHAMBER.
4) the AUTHENTICATION of 50% taken in mat 24,
5) a 2 stage gathering with a 3rd stage in Rev 14.
6) there is no possible "one coming".


BTW...if "one coming" is debunked, the entire postrib rapture doctrine is debunked.

That is a fragile shaky position to gamble with.
Click to expand...
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BTW...if "one coming" is debunked, the entire postrib rapture doctrine is debunked.

I agree

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Coming for the living
 
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I would suggest it could be a repeat of the Passover weekend for the rapture.

Pentecost for the resurrection and rapture at Rev. 14:14, 1 Thess 4

At end of the Trib--Feast of Tabernacles
 
John146 said:
First, equating what Jesus states in Matthew 24 and 25 concerning Israel to what Paul refers to as the gathering of the church. They are not the same. The elect in Matthew 24 is Israel, not the body of Christ.
Click to expand...
Rev 14:14 is Israel gathered.
That gathering is not in power and great glory.
Mat 24 "elect gathered", therefore, can not be israel.
 
One last consideration for me concerning as in the days of Noah and Lot.

27 They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,

28 Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built,

I see people doing the normal life events without troubles.

Could it be there will actually be peace on the earth when the rapture happens?????
 
John146 said:
First, equating what Jesus states in Matthew 24 and 25 concerning Israel to what Paul refers to as the gathering of the church. They are not the same. The elect in Matthew 24 is Israel, not the body of Christ.
Click to expand...


where does it give that definition

Christ was speaking to His disciples in both 24 & 25 telling them what was coming, I do not see a distinction was made

When I read Paul and Jeremiah and they explain the New C, God is one party and the other party is not the Christians.

The Bride, the Body the Church are the same, but the NC is only with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. they are all one.

yes there are some of the physical 12 tribes that are not in the Body --as yet, but to be a part of the NC you must become an Israelite

one other point, the NC is a marriage contract between Christ and His Bride He is marrying Israel
the first C was also a marriage contract, Jeremiah 31: I believe verse 31 and in Jeremiah 3, it says He divorced the House of Israel and remained married to the House of Judah.
 
John146 said:
I'm hearing what you are saying, but is there evidence of these statements in scripture?
Click to expand...
God did not see fit to make the Bible a systematic treatise that explains everything in chronological order. The truth has to be searched for, and seen in the light of the Holy Spirit's revelation, not human reason and understanding.

Having said that, it seems reasonable to me that millions of people suddenly disappearing will not go unnoticed. Pre Trib people have a scriptural basis for their position. I came to that position about 45 years ago and I n o longer recall all the scriptures I found on the subject. However, the following link is to a sound article.

http://www.relevantbibleteaching.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140037573&sec_id=140001239

Some say that we need the great tribulation to be refined. That makes no sense to me. We have sufficient tribulation in this life right now. The Great Tribulation is an expression of God's wrath. We are saved from God's wrath, not subject to it. And why just one generation? Is God punishing just one out of 2,000 years of church history. One proponent said that he did not understand why God would put some through the GT. The answer is, He does does not.
 
Gideon300 said:
God did not see fit to make the Bible a systematic treatise that explains everything in chronological order. The truth has to be searched for, and seen in the light of the Holy Spirit's revelation, not human reason and understanding.

Having said that, it seems reasonable to me that millions of people suddenly disappearing will not go unnoticed. Pre Trib people have a scriptural basis for their position. I came to that position about 45 years ago and I n o longer recall all the scriptures I found on the subject. However, the following link is to a sound article.

http://www.relevantbibleteaching.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140037573&sec_id=140001239

Some say that we need the great tribulation to be refined. That makes no sense to me. We have sufficient tribulation in this life right now. The Great Tribulation is an expression of God's wrath. We are saved from God's wrath, not subject to it. And why just one generation? Is God punishing just one out of 2,000 years of church history. One proponent said that he did not understand why God would put some through the GT. The answer is, He does does not.
Click to expand...


you may want to read Revelation chapters 2 and 3, the church has always had problems,people are people

plus Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins -- half must go through the 3 1/2 years,
 
Psalm1 said:
QUOTE
"In Matthew 25:1–13, all ten were waiting. All ten slept. The difference was oil. The oil shows readiness, the Spirit, a living faith. But notice this: the bridegroom came once. There is no earlier coming for five and later coming for the rest. When He came, the ready entered. The door was shut.
The parable teaches readiness, not a timeline of removal before tribulation."

Yes all 10 believers were waiting
Yes oil was the difference
Yes Jesus came once...not to the brides house.( earth)
But you skewed the part of the second event where the foolish Christians wanted inclusion.

I m Evers said it teaches Jesus claiming in the parable He will not come postrib.

The postribber dilemma is
1) the SETTING is pretrib.
2) half believers left behind
3) the wise believers go INTO THE MARRIAGE CHAMBER.
4) the AUTHENTICATION of 50% taken in mat 24,
5) a 2 stage gathering with a 3rd stage in Rev 14.
6) there is no possible "one coming".


BTW...if "one coming" is debunked, the entire postrib rapture doctrine is debunked.

That is a fragile shaky position to gamble with.
Click to expand...
I was a pretribber until I read in John Jesus saying that he would raise up believers on the last day . That’s where it starts to unravel .
 
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BBerean said:
I was a pretribber until I read in John Jesus saying that he would raise up believers on the last day . That’s where it starts to unravel .
Click to expand...
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You assume the last day is at the end of the Tribulation and therefore throw out scriptures that have a crystal clear understanding.

Welome tp CC
 
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omegatime

A rapture believer must over look a massive number of scriptures and the incalculable power of GOD.
If God can keep 3 men alive in a fire so hot it killed the men pitching them into the fire -- why would He need to take anyone anywhere?

I am certain I could be at ground zero of a hydrogen bomb blast and be fine, not one hair burnt.

Plus most do not understand, Jesus Christ, KING of Kings is returning for the second time to prove to mankind HIS WAY is the only WAY that works.

We have had 6000 years to live our own way, but it is only pain, suffering and death.

What is coming is 1000 years of peace, the Government of God will rule earth and restore the entire earth as the Garden of Eden, mankind will finally enjoy what was planned at the beginning.

"Relationships" is what this is all about.
 
memberofthebride said:
omegatime

A rapture believer must over look a massive number of scriptures and the incalculable power of GOD.
If God can keep 3 men alive in a fire so hot it killed the men pitching them into the fire -- why would He need to take anyone anywhere?

I am certain I could be at ground zero of a hydrogen bomb blast and be fine, not one hair burnt.

Plus most do not understand, Jesus Christ, KING of Kings is returning for the second time to prove to mankind HIS WAY is the only WAY that works.

We have had 6000 years to live our own way, but it is only pain, suffering and death.

What is coming is 1000 years of peace, the Government of God will rule earth and restore the entire earth as the Garden of Eden, mankind will finally enjoy what was planned at the beginning.

"Relationships" is what this is all about.
Click to expand...
------------------------------
Your example at the 3 men of Daniel is not included as in the days of Noah and Lot
 
Gideon300 said:
God did not see fit to make the Bible a systematic treatise that explains everything in chronological order. The truth has to be searched for, and seen in the light of the Holy Spirit's revelation, not human reason and understanding.

Having said that, it seems reasonable to me that millions of people suddenly disappearing will not go unnoticed. Pre Trib people have a scriptural basis for their position. I came to that position about 45 years ago and I n o longer recall all the scriptures I found on the subject. However, the following link is to a sound article.

http://www.relevantbibleteaching.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140037573&sec_id=140001239

Some say that we need the great tribulation to be refined. That makes no sense to me. We have sufficient tribulation in this life right now. The Great Tribulation is an expression of God's wrath. We are saved from God's wrath, not subject to it. And why just one generation? Is God punishing just one out of 2,000 years of church history. One proponent said that he did not understand why God would put some through the GT. The answer is, He does does not.
Click to expand...

Agreed about the great tribulation and the pre-trib gathering of the church. I believe that once people on earth realize it, there will be a "sensible" answer. Maybe AI? Maybe there will be a vaccine available to keep people from disappearing.:p
 
You are adding things not included in end time events. Everything must be in the proper order and timing. I commend you for knowing about the 6000 years. I recommend studying the Day of the Lord.
 
Omegatime said:
You are adding things not included in end time events. Everything must be in the proper order and timing. I commend you for knowing about the 6000 years. I recommend studying the Day of the Lord.
Click to expand...


since 1968 I have studied prophecy and The Day of the LORD from both the OT and the NT

My point: --- God does not need to snatch anyone to the 3rd heaven to protect them.
Heaven IS spirit -- nothing physical exist in heaven, or can.
God can raise a man dead for 4 days, rotting flesh, back to life ---- there is nothing He can't do.
 
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