The salvation process or journey.

[Watchman22]

So the problem was incorrect punctuation. “Were” and “we’re” are completely different words.

Ya, my bad. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Watchman22]

So the problem was incorrect punctuation. “Were” and “we’re” are completely different words.

This week is the first time I've tried to post on my wife's i phone. I guess it's the AI that decides to change some words after I write them, and I'm not catching them all.

I gave the disclaimer that I am a a a ludite. I know satans push will be through technology. So I've drawn my line early, stepping over it a little this week.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.

Much too complicated. ELI5

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except you turn and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3​

 

[Watchman22]

Much too complicated. ELI5

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except you turn and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3​

Children surrender the easiest.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Children surrender the easiest.

Great. ELI5

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Children surrender the easiest.

I think this is kind of weird actually. I would never describe children like this. Children are trusting.

 

[Watchman22]

I think this is kind of weird actually. I would never describe children like this. Children are trusting.

Thank you Lord, I just found the ignore option.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Thank you Lord, I just found the ignore option.

You don't know what a blessing that is for me. I can now comment without having to interact with you. You never answer my questions anyways, but now I don't have to deal with you pretending you want an honest conversation.

 

[Watchman22]

You don't know what a blessing that is for me. I can now comment without having to interact with you. You never answer my questions anyways, but now I don't have to deal with you pretending you want an honest conversation.

I don't know what else to do. I haven't replied to you in 3 days, and I'm still bringing out the worst in you. I can see your sinful nature has a bulls eye on my back, so let er rip, get it all out. I'll forgive you.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I don't know what else to do. I haven't replied to you in 3 days, and I'm still bringing out the worst in you. I can see your sinful nature has a bulls eye on my back, so let er rip, get it all out. I'll forgive you.

The worst in me? Quit projecting your disobedience onto me. You're not an honest person. You try to hide things from people so they can't see what you're really about. You probably don't even know yourself. This proverb is true in you, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, as in you display the characteristics of your cult leader.

 

[DJT_47]

It's both a process and a journey. Our initial salvation is for what? According to scripture, it's past sins. And scripture also says we must be faithful unto death, and since it is possible to lose your salvation such as by renouncing Christ, and it is possible to sin subsequent to initial salvation, salvation is then also a journey.

 

[mailmandan]

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)

1 Corinthians 1:18 - "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Philippians 2:12 - "So then, my beloved… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure."

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Philippians 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

 

[Watchman22]

It's both a process and a journey. Our initial salvation is for what? According to scripture, it's past sins. And scripture also says we must be faithful unto death, and since it is possible to lose your salvation such as by renouncing Christ, and it is possible to sin subsequent to initial salvation, salvation is then also a journey.

Total agreement.

It can also be understood as a response .

A response to the call of the Father, a response to presence of Christ, a response to receiving the Spirit of Christ, a response to receiving the mind of Christ. And because we live in today's world, we have a response to Gods world that wasn't available to most people in history.

What does "being faithful unto death" mean?

It means that the covenant, which was started by the call of the Father, and responded to by "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender" , must continue until death. Responding with a more genuine surrender each day. Making all the 100s of little daily decisions that support the fact that our lives don't belong to us anymore, it is His now. That response stops, everything stops.

Although when we have His Spirit and His mind, it harder to get out of His will than it is to stay in it.

I think we might be on the same page, at least in theory. Our understanding of the response may be different?

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)

1 Corinthians 1:18 - "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Philippians 2:12 - "So then, my beloved… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure."

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Philippians 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

The English language tends to limit Faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, confidence or trust. And it's leaves the "will" to another word "obedience." The king James thus sets free, faith from works. The Greek doesn't allow that. You didn't have pistis or pisteuo until you added the the"will" and hung the body in a continuing action on what the mind believed and the heart had confidence in. It is an expression of the whole man.

In relation to the living God, it's "an act, a personal surrender to Him ". "Based upon a belief , that he will accept the surrendered life. " "sustained by the confidence, by supporting the surrendered life with daily decisions that prove we really do understand that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)

1 Corinthians 1:18 - "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Philippians 2:12 - "So then, my beloved… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure."

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Philippians 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Saving faith or faithing does take work and effort. It just doesn't add anything to the "completed" work of Christ. It's our response, the correct response, to that free gift of Grace.

Faith and faithing is 95% courage, 4% tenacity, and 1% everything else.

 

[mailmandan]

The English language tends to limit Faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, confidence or trust. And it's leaves the "will" to another word "obedience." The king James thus sets free, faith from works. The Greek doesn't allow that. You didn't have pistis or pisteuo until you added the the"will" and hung the body in a continuing action on what the mind believed and the heart had confidence in. It is an expression of the whole man.

In relation to the living God, it's "an act, a personal surrender to Him ". "Based upon a belief , that he will accept the surrendered life. " "sustained by the confidence, by supporting the surrendered life with daily decisions that prove we really do understand that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.

Jay

Faith involves belief, trust and reliance and is not merely limited to the mind and emotions. We don't merely believe in our head that God has raised Him from the dead. We believe in our "heart" that God has raised Him from the dead and this believing is unto righteousness. (Romans 10:9,10)

Personal surrender to him comes as a result of having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. (John 17:3) Those who are sanctified by faith have turned from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God. (Acts 26:18) Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

 

[mailmandan]

Saving faith or faithing does take work and effort. It just doesn't add anything to the "completed" work of Christ. It's our response, the correct response, to that free gift of Grace.

Faith and faithing is 95% courage, 4% tenacity, and 1% everything else.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Watchman22]

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I'm not saying it's of ourselves. Its Grace the completed work of Christ, through faith. The application of "through faith " is pisteuo, " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

 

[NightTwister]

This week is the first time I've tried to post on my wife's i phone. I guess it's the AI that decides to change some words after I write them, and I'm not catching them all.

I gave the disclaimer that I am a a a ludite. I know satans push will be through technology. So I've drawn my line early, stepping over it a little this week.

Satan's push? What's that?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

You have to believe in your heart and mind before you can surrender your life.

a. Is surrendering ourselves TO Him not by itself an act of faith? After all, if we did not (to an extent, BELIEVE that He loves us and desires our highest good) we would never dare take the radical step of surrendering our most precious commodity (our own souls) to Him?
b. Among all the prayers we COULD pray the shortest is probably Peters's: 30But when he saw the strength of the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
In Greek this last sentence is ONE WORD..