The salvation process or journey.

[Watchman22]

a. Is surrendering ourselves TO Him not by itself an act of faith? After all, if we did not (to an extent, BELIEVE that He loves us and desires our highest good) we would never dare take the radical step of surrendering our most precious commodity (our own souls) to Him?
b. Among all the prayers we COULD pray the shortest is probably Peters's: 30But when he saw the strength of the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
In Greek this last sentence is ONE WORD..

Surrendering ourselves to Him, and living a life inspired by such surrender, is the act of faith that saves.
See the A,B,Cs of Faith thread.

The first surrender isn't to Christ, it's to the caller which is the Father.

The "Him" is the Father in the beginning. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.

The caller calls out, we turn from our way to the direction of the caller. Then we take our first step towards the caller with our first act of faithing, the offering of our life and will to Him.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Total agreement.

It can also be understood as a response .

A response to the call of the Father, a response to presence of Christ, a response to receiving the Spirit of Christ, a response to receiving the mind of Christ. And because we live in today's world, we have a response to Gods world that wasn't available to most people in history.

What does "being faithful unto death" mean?

It means that the covenant, which was started by the call of the Father, and responded to by "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender" , must continue until death. Responding with a more genuine surrender each day. Making all the 100s of little daily decisions that support the fact that our lives don't belong to us anymore, it is His now. That response stops, everything stops.

Although when we have His Spirit and His mind, it harder to get out of His will than it is to stay in it.

I think we might be on the same page, at least in theory. Our understanding of the response may be different?

Jay

You have a false belief that your eternal salvation (deliverance) is accomplished by a personal surrender to God, witch is a false doctrine of eternal salvation earned by works.. Salvation , according to Strong's concordance, means deliverance. The scriptures teach that those who are God's children who have the promise of being delivered to an everlasting heaven (John 6:37-40) as they journey here on earth, do receive many deliverances . The only way that God's children can understand eternal deliverance by God's grace void of man's works is to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Surrendering ourselves to Him, and living a life inspired by such surrender, is the act of faith that saves.
See the A,B,Cs of Faith thread.

The first surrender isn't to Christ, it's to the caller which is the Father.

The "Him" is the Father in the beginning. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.

The caller calls out, we turn from our way to the direction of the caller. Then we take our first step towards the caller with our first act of faithing, the offering of our life and will to Him.

We are delivered eternally by the faith (faithfulness) of Jesus, and not our faith (Ephesians 2:8=9). (Gal 2:16) (Gal:5:22).

 

[Watchman22]

In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.[/QUOOuch.

Bumped for Ouch.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Were you watching your teacher here when he called his listeners worthless?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:15-17​

​

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God only calls his elect. His elect are his sheep and are the only ones that can hear his voice ( John 10:26=30 )

 

[Magenta]

God only calls his elect. His elect are his sheep and are the only ones that can hear his voice ( John 10:26=30 )

Many here claim all hear. That all see, as if the world was not blinded. The existence
of the man without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God is outright denied.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

You have a false belief that your eternal salvation (deliverance) is accomplished by a personal surrender to God, witch is a false doctrine of eternal salvation earned by works}

What I said had nothing to do with earning salvation through performing meritorious works (OF THE LAW). This was the teaching of the Judaizers who taught that to in addition to putting our faith in Christ a person had to adopt certain practices of the Jewish law to be saved such as circumcision, keeping Sabbath and the feast days, eating kosher. remaining separate from non-believing Christians who were Gentiles. That this kind of "works" was what Paul had in mind is clear in his letter to the Galatians.

Does the fact that we cannot we cannot DO anything to pay for salvation mean that we are to do nothing at all? No, God Himself has commanded us to take certain actions (or to make certain choices) and that, if we do it, we will surely be saved. It is not about the works specified in some legal system. It is about obedience to Christ Himself and His call.

But let us consider what Jesus Himself (who IS the Savior) said about the conditions for receiving salvation.
24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.
25For whoever wants to save his (soul) life will lose it, but whoever loses his (soul) life for My sake will find it What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?…

Salvation , according to Strong's concordance, means deliverance. The scriptures teach that those who are God's children who have the promise of being delivered to an everlasting heaven (John 6:37-40) as they journey here on earth, do receive many deliverances . The only way that God's children can understand eternal deliverance by God's grace void of man's works is to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.[/QUOTE]

 

[Watchman22]

Salvation , according to Strong's concordance, means deliverance. The scriptures teach that those who are God's children who have the promise of being delivered to an everlasting heaven (John 6:37-40) as they journey here on earth, do receive many deliverances . The only way that God's children can understand eternal deliverance by God's grace void of man's works is to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.

[/QUOTE]

Salvation is by grace "through" faith.

Grace is the unmerited favor that is the fruit of Christ's "completed" life, death, and resurrection on earth.

"Through faith " is our response to that free gift. That response, which is required to receive His Spirit, is found in the Vines Greek dictionary under the word pisteuo which is, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

 

[Watchman22]

We are delivered eternally by the faith (faithfulness) of Jesus, and not our faith (Ephesians 2:8=9). (Gal 2:16) (Gal:5:22).

Jesus is the first goer of faith. We are to follow. He gave His life, we are called to surrender ours to Him.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus is the first goer of faith. We are to follow. He gave His life, we are called to surrender ours to Him.

Jesus wants you to surrender your addiction to Gene Scott and follow just him.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

God only calls his elect. His elect are his sheep and are the only ones that can hear his voice ( John 10:26=30 )

A.. In the Parable of the Great Banquet (Luke 14:15-24) many were invited, not just those who responded. In fact, in Jesus parable the different outcomes were the result of the decision of those who were invited. Basically, they refused to obey the call because they had other priorities so, instead of leaving their homes and making the journey to the Lord's house they made excuses. This is what Jesus said:
17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’
18 “But they all alike began to make excuses."
(Luke 4:18)
The invitations were sent to them by the Master of the feast. Jesus did not complicate the story by suggesting that the Lord sent coded invitations in such a way as to obscure the meaning to all but an preselected number of them. Thus the call was straightfoward and understood by all and it demanded a response from them - not they could in any way PAY or barter for the right to participate. However, they had to follow the directives included in the invitation.

B. The only condition they had to meet was that, when the time came, they would have to lay aside their personal business, leave their homes, and proceed the place where the banquet would be held. If they did, they would find the door opened and they would be admitted. The master's will was they come but he did not compel them to come. He invited them but they had to obey. Much later, the Father of Reformed Christianity, Augustine, took this literally, forcing people to convert and confess faith.

C. Sheep are identified by Jesus as those who respond to His call to come, and follow after (i.e., submit to be led by Jesus). The doctrine men have an inoperative will and are helpless and unable to surrender came much later from sources outside Christianity. Augustine imported his deterministic ideas form the pagan religious cult he had belonged to before His convertion.

 

[Watchman22]

In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field. Rom. 1:20
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16, Rev. 3:18, 1 Pet. 1:19-20.
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44. Rom. 2: 14-16
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7, 4:3.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.) Hebrew. 11: 1-40.
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here. Mt. 4:17, 7:39.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet. Jn. 7:39.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet. Rom.8:9
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller. Lk. 18:13.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet. Rom. 8:9.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here. 2 Cor. 8:15
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one. Gal. 2:20 , Lk 9:23, 14: 26-27, Rom. 12:1,
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God. Jason. 1:2-4, 1Pet. 1: 6-7,
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point. Rom.8:9, Ephesians. 1:13-14, Jn. 14:26, 2Cor. 5:5.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail. Prov. 14:12, 3:5-6, Jer.6:16.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. Mk. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed. Jn. 1:1-4, 1 Pet. 1:23, Lk. 8:11, Mk.4:14, Gal. 3:16.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils. Mt. 13:18-23, Mk. 4:14-20, Lk. 8:11-15.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground. Mt. 13:18-23, Mk. 4:14-20, Lk. 8:11-15.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here. Jas. 1:2-4, 1 Pet. 1:6-7.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God. Mt. 13:1-23, Mk. 4:1-20, Lk.8:4-15.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here. Mt.13:23, Mk. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis) Mt. 13:23, Lk. 8:15.
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil. Rom.11:16-24.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.Rom. 8:9.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here. Mt. 13, Mk 4, Lk. 8.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life. Gal.2:20, Lk. 22:42, Mt. 16:25.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted. Gal. 2:20, Lk. 22:42, Mt. 16:25.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13-14, 2 Cor. 1:22, Ephesians. 4:30.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him. Gal. 2:20, Ephesians. 3:17, Col.1:27.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here. Eph 5:14, Col.2:14, Rom.13:11, 1 thess. 5:6, Lk. 15:24.
E) Dynamite power goes off here. Acts 1:8, 2:2, 1 Cor. 2:4, 2Tim. 1:7, Eph. 1:19.
F) God's nature begins to flow. Jn. 7:38.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins. 2 Cor. 9:6-16, Lk. 6:38, 2 Cor. 8: 1-5.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun. Eph. 2:8-9, Jn. 3:16, Mt. 3:8, Jn. 3:6.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now. Rom. 8:9.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold. 1 Thess. 5:17, Ephesians. 6:18, Phil. 4:6.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here. Rom. 12:2, phil.2:5-8, 2Cor. 10:5-5.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time. Hebrew. 6:4-6

5) The product. Rom.8:9

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith. Eph. 2:8-10, 2 Cor. 5:17, Rom. 8:28.
B) here, a precondition has been met. Eph. 2:10, Hebrew. 12:1, Rev. 3:20, 1 Jn. 1:9, Mt.6:33, Phil.4:6-7.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us. Hebrew. 12:29, Col.1:23, Jn.15:2, 1 Jn. 2:15-17.
.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him. Jn. 3:16, 1 Cor. 1:18, Lk.13:3, 2 Pet.3:9, Rom.8:13, Acts 2:47.
E) this is not a destination. Mt. 24:13, Hebrew. 12:14, 1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor.3:18, Rom. 8:29, phol. 1:6, 2: 12-13.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life. Heb. 10:4, Rom.12:2, Mt.5:48, phil.1:6, Jas. 1:4, 2 Cor.3:18, Ephesians. 4:13.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us. Jn. 14:26, Gal.2:20, psalms 1:2-3, 1 Pet. 1:25, Hebrew. 4:12.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it. Eph. 1:13-14, 1 Cor.6:18-20, Isaiah 43:1.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.Gal.5:17, 1 Pet.5:8, 1Jn.1:8-10, 1 Cor.9:27, Rom. 8:13.

Here are the scriptures that go with the salvation process.

 

[Watchman22]

In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.

This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.

This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.

Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.

The salvation process.

1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.

2) Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.

A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.

4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.

A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.

5) The product.

A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.

This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having. It's not my intention to step on toes here, only to fulfill what I understand is the truth. This isn't about me, it's about us. I hope you see Him in this process.

Bumped for Jordan.

 

[Jordon]

Bumped for Jordan.

at which point do you have the drawing of the father in a a person life ?

 

[Watchman22]

at which point do you have the drawing of the father in a a person life ?

Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them. So that would begin the process, just as i outlined in the salvation process thread.

How the Father does that is unique to each of His called out ones.

 

[Jordon]

Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them. So that would begin the process, just as i outlined in the salvation process thread.

How the Father does that is unique to each of His called out ones.

according to scripture we are without excuse, it has be the drawing of a long old process for some and quicker for others, according to Scripture he speaks to children in the wilderness to, then we have the drawing of his moral law written on all hearts, surely that must start to take a hold as intelligence starts to blossom in a child in some way,

Maybe the moral law at that stage is mainly just growing the child in comprehension, as its believed all new life is knitted in the womb,

 

[Watchman22]

according to scripture we are without excuse, it has be the drawing of a long old process for some and quicker for others, according to Scripture he speaks to children in the wilderness to, then we have the drawing of his moral law written on all hearts, surely that must start to take a hold as intelligence starts to blossom in a child in some way,

Maybe the moral law at that stage is mainly just growing the child in comprehension, as its believed all new life is knitted in the womb,

Were not gonna haggle on when the Father calls out his chosen are we?

 

[Watchman22]

according to scripture we are without excuse, it has be the drawing of a long old process for some and quicker for others, according to Scripture he speaks to children in the wilderness to, then we have the drawing of his moral law written on all hearts, surely that must start to take a hold as intelligence starts to blossom in a child in some way,

Maybe the moral law at that stage is mainly just growing the child in comprehension, as its believed all new life is knitted in the womb,

Hey Jordan,
You could PM me if you want.

 

[Jordon]

Were not gonna haggle on when the Father calls out his chosen are we?

His word doesn't give a time line of how long the drawing process goes on for, or a singular blink of an eye moment Drawing

But more the case his word shows a growing in the fathers mercy first. Over a personal relationship, before the calling.