The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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S
Thanks for the correction. I was going to correct it and say it was over 500,000,000 with the pentecostal/charismatic combined which is more my point anyway. This is true that numbers alone do not determine rignt but the life and fruits of the Spirit do indeed and this you can observe for yourself. There is a reason people prefer charismatic churches because the people are on the majority more sincere, real, and living out what they preach. Billy Graham was famously quoted as stating that only about 80% of his denomination attending church any given Sunday morning were born again. The opposite is true for charismatic congregations. These are some of the real life experiences that anyone can observe that demonstrate that their hermeneutic is superior to yours. One of the rules of hermeneutics is application, "How does this apply to my life" and pentecostal/charismatics are applying their interpretation quite successfully.
Peter applied Joel to the day of Pentecost. So get with the program brother. There was an application in Joel's day but there is a Last Day application which we are still in. And if it begin with Pentecost how MUCH MORE does God want to pour out His Spirit on all flesh today upon whom the ends of the Earth have come. In Romans 10 Paul applied Isaiah 52 not only to the Israelite's coming out of Babylon but to the salvation of Jesus Christ and we should too. Much of what the prophets said had more to do with us in the age of heralding the Gospel of Jesus Christ than the application of their day. This is very important to understand, if you do not want to just sit back and observe with skepticism while God uses people today to turn the world upside down. Jump in the river and swim in the shekinah Glory of God brother. There's more to this Christian life than just words on a page. You can experience being Filled with the Holy Spirit and times of refreshing if you turn to him in faith and expectation. Ask the Lord to empower you for ministry, lift up your hands to heaven in expectation, open your mouth and praise him with a loud voice and watch what God will do when you simply ask, seek and knock.
Peter applied Joel to the day of Pentecost. So get with the program brother. There was an application in Joel's day but there is a Last Day application which we are still in. And if it begin with Pentecost how MUCH MORE does God want to pour out His Spirit on all flesh today upon whom the ends of the Earth have come. In Romans 10 Paul applied Isaiah 52 not only to the Israelite's coming out of Babylon but to the salvation of Jesus Christ and we should too. Much of what the prophets said had more to do with us in the age of heralding the Gospel of Jesus Christ than the application of their day. This is very important to understand, if you do not want to just sit back and observe with skepticism while God uses people today to turn the world upside down. Jump in the river and swim in the shekinah Glory of God brother. There's more to this Christian life than just words on a page. You can experience being Filled with the Holy Spirit and times of refreshing if you turn to him in faith and expectation. Ask the Lord to empower you for ministry, lift up your hands to heaven in expectation, open your mouth and praise him with a loud voice and watch what God will do when you simply ask, seek and knock.
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S
It began on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. It was deprecated by the lukewarm church until by studying the scriptures people got bold enough to ask for it again. Much like Luther and others discovered that being born again by faith in Christ alone was in the scriptures and began to teach it again. Keep studying the scriptures and reform to the book of Acts style of christianity. You have come so far and then stopped. Don't stop. keep going. 
The difficulty with that is . Nothing (unknowns) proves nothing. We need evidence to come to a verdict. Wondering falling backward is not evidence of belief but the opposite, according to the foundation of the doctrine Isaiah 28 revisited in 1 Corihtinans 14. .
For instance. What if the doctrine was explained to you through what some call a longue "a unknown." What could a person believe or exercise as a faith coming from another? . Sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Children banging wooden spoons on a kettle without rhyme or reason ?
Spiritual unseen gifts yes. Sign and wonder gifts seen ....no . No need. No want .
It would be like given a Bible with no words . In the beginning was nothing.
For instance. What if the doctrine was explained to you through what some call a longue "a unknown." What could a person believe or exercise as a faith coming from another? . Sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Children banging wooden spoons on a kettle without rhyme or reason ?
Spiritual unseen gifts yes. Sign and wonder gifts seen ....no . No need. No want .
It would be like given a Bible with no words . In the beginning was nothing.
S
She just told you she got it from the scripture. Your reply makes no sense. So what if you see it clearly in the scripture but then you reject it because you don't want people to make fun of you? Are you then an idolater who loves the praise of man more than the praise of God? Or what if it is clear in the scripture but you make up weird interpretations that no one has ever heard or would agree with not even non-pentecostals would agree with, then what are you doing? Plugging your ears with your fingers and singing loudly LALALALA like a little child? I think you understand my garee-speak.
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Yes and making the foundation of the doctrine found in Isaiah 28 the interpretation of the Holy Spirit successfully to no effect.
Successfully or to their own demise?
God reveals that as a sign "the spirit of judgment" to the those who seek after the oral tradition of men that do make his tradition sola scriptura without effect. And time and time again he reminds them yet for all that they still make noises without meaning as something to be sought after .
Makes me wonder why they seem to love wondering rather that believing what the word says?
The majority more sincere, real, and living out what they preach? like real Christians needing to be filled more than once?
Like the wrath of God being revealed daily from heaven . . men sufferings the temporal wage of sin the first death all the days of their lives .That kind of sincere, real, and living out what the father preached : Or living out the work of the father of lies preaching you shall not surely die. . why trust the unseen things of faith. look at me and live. . real living proof. (who needs faith ?)
Successfully or to their own demise?
God reveals that as a sign "the spirit of judgment" to the those who seek after the oral tradition of men that do make his tradition sola scriptura without effect. And time and time again he reminds them yet for all that they still make noises without meaning as something to be sought after .
Makes me wonder why they seem to love wondering rather that believing what the word says?
The majority more sincere, real, and living out what they preach? like real Christians needing to be filled more than once?
Like the wrath of God being revealed daily from heaven . . men sufferings the temporal wage of sin the first death all the days of their lives .That kind of sincere, real, and living out what the father preached : Or living out the work of the father of lies preaching you shall not surely die. . why trust the unseen things of faith. look at me and live. . real living proof. (who needs faith ?)
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She just told you she got it from the scripture. Your reply makes no sense. So what if you see it clearly in the scripture but then you reject it because you don't want people to make fun of you? Are you then an idolater who loves the praise of man more than the praise of God? Or what if it is clear in the scripture but you make up weird interpretations that no one has ever heard or would agree with not even non-pentecostals would agree with, then what are you doing? Plugging your ears with your fingers and singing loudly LALALALA like a little child? I think you understand my garee-speak.
She said it was explained to her from the Bible. . from those who believe nothing proves nothing as some kind wonderment filling them weekly or daily with something.? ??
Word have meaning attached to them. Tongues is simply prophecy spoken in all the languages of the world .
I think you understand my Scribe-speak.
Saw lasaw saw lasaw. Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”Just look to the forbidden foundation.
God Wants to Help His People
Isaiah 28: 9 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? 10 He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”[b]
11 So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.
12 In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. 13 So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds[c] to them:
“
When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
They love being slain in the spirit it shows they are big boys and girls and have outgrown their need to hear sola scriptura.
Thanks for the reply.
I hate (do not bless ) the idea that nothing proves something? I love the word of God that blesses us
Which sentence was that that you did not understanding ? ? The ones that says nothing proves nothing?
The bible warns of of those who say we do need a man to teach us.(antichrists') Why would he produce sounds without meaning and command us to go find someone seek their approval? How would that be two walking in agreement to one
.Three and more is the crowd of those who say nothing proves God. In the beginning was nothing and nothing was said. Bang!
I hate (do not bless ) the idea that nothing proves something? I love the word of God that blesses us
Which sentence was that that you did not understanding ? ?
The ones that says nothing proves nothing?The bible warns of of those who say we do need a man to teach us.(antichrists') Why would he produce sounds without meaning and command us to go find someone seek their approval? How would that be two walking in agreement to one
.Three and more is the crowd of those who say nothing proves God. In the beginning was nothing and nothing was said. Bang!
I know, and I expierienced Gods guidance in my life since more then 30 years. My expieriences with pentecostals is, that there are not more fruitful ore moralic better.
My expieriences with charismatics is that they destroy churches with false promisses and fake miracles and dreams and makeing hidden Meetings for to undermine the church.
But the mainpoint for me, is that this is a teaching which is not taught in the bible.
People attend the charismatic/ pentecostal churches because of their promisses of a health/ wealth life and wonders and miracles in their life.
I have an brother who is Christian for a long time. He once said, he will also see miracles in His life. He is no charismatic, but he defends their teachings.
And how many of these promisses came true? How many of the prophecies came true?
It is not only that people join pentecostal and charismatic churches. They liebe them also because of mental pressure and the expieriences that much what is takeing place is fake.
Yes Peter, took the verses of Joel. But this could only be a partwise fulfillment, because till today you cant find it in the folk of Israel.
It will come in Future.
And not the pentecostal/charismatic movement are the Adressat of Joel.
How many false teachings came in through the pentecostal/charismatic movements?
This movements called as the engine of the ecumenical church.
Should I realy Trust in this teachings?
I dont need miracles in my life for to see that the Holy Spirit lives in me.
My expieriences with charismatics is that they destroy churches with false promisses and fake miracles and dreams and makeing hidden Meetings for to undermine the church.
But the mainpoint for me, is that this is a teaching which is not taught in the bible.
People attend the charismatic/ pentecostal churches because of their promisses of a health/ wealth life and wonders and miracles in their life.
I have an brother who is Christian for a long time. He once said, he will also see miracles in His life. He is no charismatic, but he defends their teachings.
And how many of these promisses came true? How many of the prophecies came true?
It is not only that people join pentecostal and charismatic churches. They liebe them also because of mental pressure and the expieriences that much what is takeing place is fake.
Yes Peter, took the verses of Joel. But this could only be a partwise fulfillment, because till today you cant find it in the folk of Israel.
It will come in Future.
And not the pentecostal/charismatic movement are the Adressat of Joel.
How many false teachings came in through the pentecostal/charismatic movements?
This movements called as the engine of the ecumenical church.
Should I realy Trust in this teachings?
I dont need miracles in my life for to see that the Holy Spirit lives in me.
Glanced at this thread this morning, not for enlightenment as I have used obediently the prayer language He died to bring us for over 50 years with His response of power, blessing, divine encounters, healing, etc. all the things He said would be characteristic in this last of the last days and the greater works His Own would do.
Pretty sure the outpouring of Holy Spirit with power was before Topeka existed.
"and in a language so elegant and divine".......
http://caseforprayer.com/42-2/
The Birth of America Historically, the military has acknowledged Almighty God as sovereign over the affairs of men, especially men of valor in war time. From General George Washington to the present hour, our Commanders-in-Chief have prayed for God’s Providence, and acknowledged His favor upon a military force that is dedicated to defending liberty and justice for all. The first meeting of Congress in 1774 took place at Carpenter’s Hall in Philadelphia and was opened with prayer. There was some argument then as to whether men of such diverse religious views could agree to pray. Mr. Samuel Adams arose and said, “that he was no bigot; and could hear a Prayer from any gentleman of Piety and virtue who was at the same time a friend to his Country.” The next morning, September 7, 1774, The Reverend Jacob Duche opened the congressional session with prayer. John Adams described the prayer to his wife Abigail in a letter, saying he had never heard prayer with “such fervor, such ardor, such earnestness and pathos, and in a language so elegant and sublime, for America, for Congress, for the Province of Massachusetts Bay, and especially the town of Boston. It has had an excellent effect upon everybody here.”[3] Thursday, June 28, 1787. Benjamin Franklin delivered a speech to the Constitutional Convention addressing a bitter debate over the representation of individual states in the new government. At the age of 81, he was the senior member of the convention. James Madison recorded his words as follows:
Pretty sure the outpouring of Holy Spirit with power was before Topeka existed.
"and in a language so elegant and divine".......
http://caseforprayer.com/42-2/
The Birth of America Historically, the military has acknowledged Almighty God as sovereign over the affairs of men, especially men of valor in war time. From General George Washington to the present hour, our Commanders-in-Chief have prayed for God’s Providence, and acknowledged His favor upon a military force that is dedicated to defending liberty and justice for all. The first meeting of Congress in 1774 took place at Carpenter’s Hall in Philadelphia and was opened with prayer. There was some argument then as to whether men of such diverse religious views could agree to pray. Mr. Samuel Adams arose and said, “that he was no bigot; and could hear a Prayer from any gentleman of Piety and virtue who was at the same time a friend to his Country.” The next morning, September 7, 1774, The Reverend Jacob Duche opened the congressional session with prayer. John Adams described the prayer to his wife Abigail in a letter, saying he had never heard prayer with “such fervor, such ardor, such earnestness and pathos, and in a language so elegant and sublime, for America, for Congress, for the Province of Massachusetts Bay, and especially the town of Boston. It has had an excellent effect upon everybody here.”[3] Thursday, June 28, 1787. Benjamin Franklin delivered a speech to the Constitutional Convention addressing a bitter debate over the representation of individual states in the new government. At the age of 81, he was the senior member of the convention. James Madison recorded his words as follows:
That happens to be another thing I don't have to worry about... how well man kept records.
I don't (at the moment) remember the details of when that question was first brought to my attention but it was fairly early on. Probably before i even knew about speaking in tongues at all, and almost certainly before I knew about Azusa Street.
I came to the conclusion that it (truth &salvation) was about me and God independent of whatever man had to say about it in between.
I don't know if you're one of those who subscribes to the doctrine that God's word is ONLY in the bible, but if you are, your suggestion that we should trust man's record of history in order to construct or test doctrines is absurd.
And if you happen to be one who subscribes to the idea that God still speaks, and that the Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth (not only that which is directly recorded in the bible as being only partial) then you could ask God yourself and find out that way.
Or you could just diligently seek God asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit (tarrying until he moves) and see what he actually gives. It will be the same Holy Ghost that he gave in Acts because THAT is the record of outpourings according to God, not man.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I don't (at the moment) remember the details of when that question was first brought to my attention but it was fairly early on. Probably before i even knew about speaking in tongues at all, and almost certainly before I knew about Azusa Street.
I came to the conclusion that it (truth &salvation) was about me and God independent of whatever man had to say about it in between.
I don't know if you're one of those who subscribes to the doctrine that God's word is ONLY in the bible, but if you are, your suggestion that we should trust man's record of history in order to construct or test doctrines is absurd.
And if you happen to be one who subscribes to the idea that God still speaks, and that the Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth (not only that which is directly recorded in the bible as being only partial) then you could ask God yourself and find out that way.
Or you could just diligently seek God asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit (tarrying until he moves) and see what he actually gives. It will be the same Holy Ghost that he gave in Acts because THAT is the record of outpourings according to God, not man.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Thanks for the reply.
I hate (do not bless ) the idea that nothing proves something? I love the word of God that blesses us
Which sentence was that that you did not understanding ? ? The ones that says nothing proves nothing?
The bible warns of of those who say we do need a man to teach us.(antichrists') Why would he produce sounds without meaning and command us to go find someone seek their approval? How would that be two walking in agreement to one
.Three and more is the crowd of those who say nothing proves God. In the beginning was nothing and nothing was said. Bang!
I hate (do not bless ) the idea that nothing proves something? I love the word of God that blesses us
Which sentence was that that you did not understanding ? ?
The ones that says nothing proves nothing?The bible warns of of those who say we do need a man to teach us.(antichrists') Why would he produce sounds without meaning and command us to go find someone seek their approval? How would that be two walking in agreement to one
.Three and more is the crowd of those who say nothing proves God. In the beginning was nothing and nothing was said. Bang!
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I do remember the subject matter. It was when I was wondering what church had the truth. And I was wondering if I should start looking into other churches. That's when I realized that doing so (reading articles and looking into history) would only cause me to rely on the words and judgements of man.
So I came to the conclusion that I should rely on God instead.
I should probably note that I was not in a tongues speaking church at the time. I just didn't want to be the blind being led by the blind, so I was beginning to seek God diligently for the TRUTH about salvation regardless what I'd been taught and believed so far.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
So I came to the conclusion that I should rely on God instead.
I should probably note that I was not in a tongues speaking church at the time. I just didn't want to be the blind being led by the blind, so I was beginning to seek God diligently for the TRUTH about salvation regardless what I'd been taught and believed so far.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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S
You can but you cannot speak the mysteries directly to God that Paul says happens when you pray in tongues. Those mysteries spoken directly to God may not seem like it has value in your mind but it did to Paul and those who use the gift. It is God's method and plan, who are we to question it's logic?
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