The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[Guojing]

My first thought was "What is in Acts 4 that a Christian would run from?". So thanks for coming up with something new to me.

I see two things about Acts 4:32,34-35. (Well 3 things now that I reviewed it again.)

1. Acts 4:32 was a voluntary action, not a commandment.
2. To whom would they (now) give the collective offering? (because that was ALL Christians wide, not just one group). And a much more important question to me would be...
3. Why aren't they/we aligning ourselves with Acts 4:31? (Especially those who claim to love God.) God hasn't banned prayer. And Luke 11:13 is still in effect.

It appears to me that Acts 4:32-35 were natural outcomes of fulfillment of Acts 4:31 and/or the first part of 32. But most 'Christians' don't even know what is meant by the phrase "being FILLED with the Holy Ghost" as opposed to the initial infilling/outpouring/baptism of.

And don't be hasty to claim you know because you should expect to be asked for a VERY clear explanation if you do.

I'll go even further by stating that most 'Christians' don't even know how to tell who even HAS the Holy Ghost in their own congregation even though the Romans 8:9 says "if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his"! They should want to know this also for 3 reasons:

1. To know who still needs to become a Christian (so they can be praying for them).
2. Who is and isn't in the body of Christ (so they don't get deceived). And perhaps most importantly...
3. So they know for sure whether they themselves are actually Christians. And again, if a person doesn't know how they in Jerusalem knew that the Samaritans had NOT yet received the Holy Ghost in Acts 8:14-16 (without it being specifically spelled out) then they likely don't actually know how to recognize the Holy Ghost (or lack of the Holy Ghost) in themselves.

I was going to ask what your thoughts are on who is to be included in the body of Christ, and when, but this post is long enough and I'm concerned that some will think this post was somehow a distraction tactic or that I was offended by your question. (neither are true). So it might be best to answer that in a separate reply. Either way, thanks for the questions and replies.

I guess on a last review of Acts 4:31-35 it seems that Acts 4:31 is fulfilling the first most important commandment of "Love God" and Acts 4:32,34-45 is fulfilling the 2nd "Love thy neighbor as thyself".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

To the dispensationalist, we understand early Acts as follows, Jesus told them when they were preaching the kingdom gospel at several occasions not to have money.

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Mark 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:

Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

So in Acts, they followed this commandment too. It was not a suggestion, it was explicitly commmanded by Jesus under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The reason is that the Tribulation will be coming very soon after Jesus ascended to Heaven. So the more money they hold on, the more temptation will there be to fall under the Antichrist and the mark of the beast.

James 5 is quite instructive there

1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

But why don't the Body of Christ follow Acts 4:32 now?

Its because with national Israel being enemies with God now (Romans 11:28), the tribulation will not be coming anytime now. We will be raptured before that happen, so Paul instead instruct us to have enough to provide for our own household in 1 Tim 5:8

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[garee]

Hi Garee,
As I read your posts, I can see spirit influence but I haven't been able (yet) to know exactly which one(s), so I keep praying for you. I do know God loves you and it seems to me you have a deep love for God but aren't clear on exactly how to use it.

You are not alone in not KNOWING what it means to be filled with the Holy Ghost. Most professing Christians don't, and neither do their leaders. And I don't know why people are afraid to acknowledge and admit ignorance, like they could and did in Acts 19:2.

If that Acts 19 account is anything to go by, it means that deliverance and the Holy Ghost is available to those who can admit their blindness, (rather than receiving condemnation). I think people, ESPECIALLY Christians, are so afraid to admit they don't know some basic things that they decide to pretend lest they be accused of unbelief.

God has taught me that humility and honesty are the gates that we MUST pass through if we want to truly know much of anything. That's kind of why I started the thread about "Are We Willing to Be Blind?"

My prayer for you is that you will seek God diligently in love ...but in some ways AGAINST your current thoughts...until God makes Himself known to you. What I mean by "against your current thoughts" is that I know you have quick and strong thoughts that come to your mind on many topics...and they suggest strongly what the truth should be, but don't give you peace about it. And I'm guessing you would like peaceful knowledge and understanding.

Meanwhile, know that I am praying for you both in spirit and in truth, and am wishing you well in Jesus name and according to his will.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Thanks .

I do know what it means to be filled "once" by the Holy Spirit that dwells in these earthen bodies of death

But resist the idea of being filled again, again and again. Over and over. Crucifying Christ over and over holding him to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough to prove the Son and the Father have finished all the "fill up" work .
Signs as metaphors follow. Making Jesus into a circus seal I would think is not the good news, coming from our new tongue.

No person can serve two teaching Masters. Prophecy the tongue of God .And lying wonders.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

God is not longer brining new prophecy . But the lying wonders will continue to the last day . No room for wondering when a person believes. Jesus said marvel not but rather believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[garee]

Of course. I will mention only the spiritual types of tongues in this comment.
We all know of the tongues spoken by the disciples at Pentecost (Acts 2). Luke described this event as "tongues of fire". Although there is no indication in the Bible that the "tongues of fire" would be repeated, some people today say it happens today and call it "tongues for evangelism", you called it "diversities of tongues". This event in Acts 2 is a contrast to the tower of Babel (Gen 11). The Tower of Babel was erected in the self-exaltation of the people. So God scattered them and confused their languages. But in Acts 2, the apostles gathered and "waited for what the Father had promised", exalting God through their obedience, and God did the exact opposite of what He did in Gen 11. He unified the languages/let everyone hear what they were saying in their native tongue, because they were exalting God and no themselves.

The second kind if tongues is also well known

Of course. I will mention only the spiritual types of tongues in this comment.

We all know of the tongues spoken by the disciples at Pentecost (Acts 2). Luke described this event as "tongues of fire". Although there is no indication in the Bible that the "tongues of fire" would be repeated, some people say it happens today and call it "tongues for evangelism", you called it "diversities of tongues". That's fine, I don't have an opinion about this one. This event in Acts 2 is a contrast to the tower of Babel (Gen 11). The Tower of Babel was erected in the self-exaltation of the people. So God scattered them and confused their languages. But in Acts 2, the disciples gathered and "waited for what the Father had promised", exalting God through their obedience, so God did the exact opposite of what He did in Gen 11. He brought unity to the languages/let everyone hear what they were saying in their native tongue because they were exalting God and not themselves.

The second kind is tongues for the edification of the body-When we assemble (1 Cor 14:5, 26) (these must be interpreted).

The third kind is tounges for deeper intercession (1 Cor 14:15; Eph 6:18) This allows for a more acceptable and perfect prayer, or when we don't know what to pray, because "we do not know how we ought to pray. The Spirit Himself intercedes with groaning too deep for understanding

The fourth kind is tongues for personal edification (1 Cor 14:2, 4) Some consider this to be the same as "tongues for deeper intercession". I don't have a problem with people who say that. But the construction of the Greek in 1 Cor 14 is structured in a way that categorizes them as different subjects. So it would be more true to the text to treat is as a separate category.

Deeper intercession" as a wonderment ?

There is only the spiritual types .But after what spirit ? seeing we do not wrestle against the things seen ,the temporal.

We choose. The spirit of lying wonders or the Spirit of prophecy the tongue of God .? which teaching master?

Have you looked at the foundation of the doctrine of tongues in Isaiah 28?

David declared if unbelievers destroy the foundation of doctrines . What can the believers do other than offer Isaiah 28 as a place to start. The same law revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22

 

[Diakonos]

Deeper intercession" as a wonderment ?

I don't understand what you're trying to communicate here

But after what spirit ?

The Holy Spirit...That's why Paul opened his introduction of tongues by telling us "no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit".
Are you suggesting that there is some sort of demonic tongues that people can chant?

Have you looked at the foundation of the doctrine of tongues in Isaiah 28?

"Indeed, He will speak to this people
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue" (Isa 28:11)
"this people"= the Kingdom of Judah.

Isaiah said that if they did not want to listen to his “lecturing” then they would be “lectured” by another people who had a difficult and different speech. Foreign lips would deliver the message of judgment on them. Isaiah was referring to the Assyrians who were advancing on Israel and would soon conquer it. Though God had offered Israel rest and repose they refused to listen to Him and His messenger. Therefore the LORD would turn their mocking back on them and they would be injured … snared, and captured by a people whose language they did not understand.

David declared if unbelievers destroy the foundation of doctrines what can the believers do other than offer Isaiah 28 as a place to start.

How could David suggest that people heed Isaiah's words if Isaiah wasn't born yet?

 

[garee]

I don't understand what you're trying to communicate here

Marveling seeking after wonders as a personal self edifying experience with unintelligible sounds, is not deeper that prophecy the tongue of God. Intelligible sounds that work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure.,

The Holy Spirit...That's why Paul opened his introduction of tongues by telling us "no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit".
Are you suggesting that there is some sort of demonic tongues that people can chant?

Yes no one can say anything with unintelligible sounds that cause a person to wonder rather than believe. . That's were prophecy the tongue of God comes in. No such things as a outward sign (it did it ) gift. We walk by faith. We have the witness within us our new tongue the gospel. It can work to cast out lies that have no meaning.

"Indeed, He will speak to this people
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue" (Isa 28:11)
"this people"= the Kingdom of Judah.

That people are those who refuse to hear prophecy in any language . They mock prophecy the tongue of God mocking the spirit of judgment falling back slain in the spirit. To show their distain for hearing prophecy . It speaks of mankind not one nation. Its not about flesh and blood wrestling against flesh and blood. But rather creating illusions

Jeremiah 44:16-18 King James Version (KJV) As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Isaiah said that if they did not want to listen to his “lecturing” then they would be “lectured” by another people who had a difficult and different speech. Foreign lips would deliver the message of judgment on them. Isaiah was referring to the Assyrians who were advancing on Israel and would soon conquer it. Though God had offered Israel rest and repose they refused to listen to Him and His messenger. Therefore the LORD would turn their mocking back on them and they would be injured … snared, and captured by a people whose language they did not understand.

Not about lecturing but that which they believed not. Prophecy the tongue of God

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord

They stop up the ears referred to as deaf adders. The poison of senseless words. as false prophecy, false gospel .

Psalm 58:4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

How could David suggest that people heed Isaiah's words if Isaiah wasn't born yet?

David it would seem was well aware of prophecy "understandable words" and those who peep an mutter making senseless noises as self edifying, something unknown and wonderful ..

Abel the first prophet apostle and martyr experienced the mocking of God. Those who do not believe prophecy in any tongue . Cain slew him he fell backward and was plowed under .Mocking the spirit of judgment /

 

[Diakonos]

Marveling seeking after wonders as a personal self edifying experience with unintelligible sounds, is not deeper that prophecy the tongue of God. Intelligible sounds that work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure.,



Yes no one can say anything with unintelligible sounds that cause a person to wonder rather than believe. . That's were prophecy the tongue of God comes in. No such things as a outward sign (it did it ) gift. We walk by faith. We have the witness within us our new tongue the gospel. It can work to cast out lies that have no meaning.




That people are those who refuse to hear prophecy in any language . They mock prophecy the tongue of God mocking the spirit of judgment falling back slain in the spirit. To show their distain for hearing prophecy . It speaks of mankind not one nation. Its not about flesh and blood wrestling against flesh and blood. But rather creating illusions

Jeremiah 44:16-18 King James Version (KJV) As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.




Not about lecturing but that which they believed not. Prophecy the tongue of God

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord

They stop up the ears referred to as deaf adders. The poison of senseless words. as false prophecy, false gospel .

Psalm 58:4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;



David it would seem was well aware of prophecy "understandable words" and those who peep an mutter making senseless noises as self edifying, something unknown and wonderful ..

Abel the first prophet apostle and martyr experienced the mocking of God. Those who do not believe prophecy in any tongue . Cain slew him he fell backward and was plowed under .Mocking the spirit of judgment /

Just to gain some common ground....Do you understand what the purpose of tongues is? Can you tell me in your own words?
Also, is the one who is speaking in tongues speaking to people or the Lord?

 

[Dino246]

Just to gain some common ground....Do you understand what the purpose of tongues is? Can you tell me in your own words?
Also, is the one who is speaking in tongues speaking to people or the Lord?

You aren't likely to get a concise, straightforward response from him. However, you can get a picture of garee's misunderstanding of 'tongues' in the 'Tongues are Divisive' thread. Just scan the last three of four pages of the thread.

 

[garee]

Just to gain some common ground....Do you understand what the purpose of tongues is? Can you tell me in your own words?
Also, is the one who is speaking in tongues speaking to people or the Lord?

Thanks . The purpose is for the Holy Spirit to give us ears to hear his spiritual understanding, called the hearing of faith. The same faith that works in us strengthening us to will and perform the good pleasure of God. The tongue of God is the word of God's prophecy. When it comes to teaching us how to pray. It is the work of two working as one. Like David who was given words from the father brining glory to God .Teaching us how to pray .You could say by the same spitt of faith as it is written

In that sense God is speaking to the people from God.. . through apostles. (Those sent with a message from God not seen) .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

 

[garee]

You aren't likely to get a concise, straightforward response from him. However, you can get a picture of garee's misunderstanding of 'tongues' in the 'Tongues are Divisive' thread. Just scan the last three of four pages of the thread.

Straightforward? like compare the literal thing seen to the same. Or the other teaching Master. . . the law of faith. . faith to faith according to the hidden understanding in the parables. . the power of God unto salvation

So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.Romans 1:15-17

 

[Dino246]

Straightforward? like compare the literal thing seen to the same. Or the other teaching Master. . . the law of faith. . faith to faith according to the hidden understanding in the parables. . the power of God unto salvation

So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.Romans 1:15-17

Straightforward as in simple, direct, relevant, and concise... concepts that consistently elude you, as they have here.

 

[garee]

Straightforward as in simple, direct, relevant, and concise... concepts that consistently elude you, as they have here.

The ones that come as your opinion or someone's unknow wonderment?

Tongue = Language.

No tongue= no language.

Just senseless sound that drive men to fall backward. be lifted up filled up . . . I wonderfully did it!

No such thing a a sign gift . I would think a new desire to study the word would be enough fil up the Holy Spirit. But making senseless noises and called that prophecy . I would not go there.

 

[CS1]

Thanks . The purpose is for the Holy Spirit to give us ears to hear his spiritual understanding, called the hearing of faith. The same faith that works in us strengthening us to will and perform the good pleasure of God. The tongue of God is the word of God's prophecy. When it comes to teaching us how to pray. It is the work of two working as one. Like David who was given words from the father brining glory to God .Teaching us how to pray .You could say by the same spitt of faith as it is written

In that sense God is speaking to the people from God.. . through apostles. (Those sent with a message from God not seen) .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

This is why it is important to actually say what the word of God does and What Jesus said.

John chapter 1 Jesus is speaking and HE said:

Verse 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— "

"Give you another Helper" is not saying something different but of the same kind meaning help and power sent by God

in Verse 26 Jesus said this helper would :

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."


In Chapter 15 verse 26 Jesus again says :
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."

Then Finally in Chapter 16:7 Jesus tell them the Helper will


“Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you."

verse 8 “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

john 16:13

“However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.



The Holy Spirit does for the Believer as Jesus said HE would do:

• teach you
• bring into remembrance all that Jesus said
• testify of Jesus
• Guide you into all truth
• He will speak and tell you of things to come
• He will declare what is Jesus to us
• Acts 1: 8 empower you to be a witnesses

To The world :

• He will bring truth
• Convict the world of sin, of righteousness and Judgementbecause of sin and unbelief
• He will Glorify Jesus

The issue with your understanding is you leave out that God Himself wants to speak to us from the word and the Holy Spirit will confirm it. Today the job of the Holy Spirit has not stopped.

as Jesus said "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— "


With you Forever.
The Holy Spirit is still convicting the world of sin, the Holy Spirit is still leading and guiding the child of God into all truth. The Holy Spirit is still testifying of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is still empowering the believer to be an effective witness.

The Holy Spirit is still disturbing His Gifts in 1cor Chapter 12. Nothing has stopped nothing has ceased because the Holy Spirit is with us FOREVER! as the Lord Jesus Christ has said.

 

[Dino246]

The ones that come as your opinion or someone's unknow wonderment?

Tongue = Language.

No tongue= no language.

Just senseless sound that drive men to fall backward. be lifted up filled up . . . I wonderfully did it!

No such thing a a sign gift . I would think a new desire to study the word would be enough fil up the Holy Spirit. But making senseless noises and called that prophecy . I would not go there.

More irrelevance. You just aren't grasping the concept. Nothing in your post is related in the least to the idea of a straightforward response. Step out of "tongues" for a moment, learn the word, and apply it.

 

[CS1]

More irrelevance. You just aren't grasping the concept. Nothing in your post is related in the least to the idea of a straightforward response. Step out of "tongues" for a moment, learn the word, and apply it.

I'm trying brother LOL

 

[garee]

More irrelevance. You just aren't grasping the concept. Nothing in your post is related in the least to the idea of a straightforward response. Step out of "tongues" for a moment, learn the word, and apply it.

I am aware what the word means. No such thing as a sign gift the filler uppers.

• directly,
• forthrightly,
• foursquare,
• plain,
• plainly,
• straight,
• straightforwardly

What is it you want me to say ? Tongues is not prophecy? Wondering , marveling as well getting filled with something unknown weekly with as I did it. I self edified myself is prophecy fulfilled.

Jesus uses it when the disciple knew not the meaning in the parable of dead in respect to a believer .Not forever dead never to rise. but dead asleep. See how parables teach us to walk by faith.

John 11: 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

It would seem you keep forgetting parables teach us how to walk by faith. When the apostles in Luke 9 would confuse the issue and ask for the sign gift of judgment. . destroy what is before their eyes. After a series of parable .Jesus revealed to them straightforwardly .You no not what manner of spirit they were of.

What straightforward manner was it ? The Dino manner spirit ?No gospel meaning in the parable?

And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire the (sign gift ) to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. Luke 9:52-55

 

[CS1]

I am aware what the word means. No such thing as a sign gift the filler uppers.

• directly,
• forthrightly,
• foursquare,
• plain,
• plainly,
• straight,
• straightforwardly

What is it you want me to say ? Tongues is not prophecy? Wondering , marveling as well getting filled with something unknown weekly with as I did it. I self edified myself is prophecy fulfilled.

Jesus uses it when the disciple knew not the meaning in the parable of dead in respect to a believer .Not forever dead never to rise. but dead asleep. See how parables teach us to walk by faith.

John 11: 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

It would seem you keep forgetting parables teach us how to walk by faith. When the apostles in Luke 9 would confuse the issue and ask for the sign gift of judgment. . destroy what is before their eyes. After a series of parable .Jesus revealed to them straightforwardly .You no not what manner of spirit they were of.

What straightforward manner was it ? The Dino manner spirit ?No gospel meaning in the parable?

And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire the (sign gift ) to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. Luke 9:52-55

this a is a great example of incoherent babbling and unbiblical

 

[Dino246]

I am aware what the word means.

Then apply it!

When you are asked a question, provide a straightforward answer, not half a page of irrelevant ranting against tongues!

 

[garee]

Then apply it!

When you are asked a question, provide a straightforward answer, not half a page of irrelevant ranting against tongues!

How many words is the limit ?

 

[Dino246]

How many words is the limit ?

Four: simple, direct, relevant, and concise.

 

[garee]

Four: simple, direct, relevant, and concise.

Tongue is prophecy . Happy?