The Gospel Demands Radical Sacrifice - David Platt

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Rest in verse 9 means Sabbath Observance. REST in verse 10 is in reference to the REST to which we experience through Christ.

The weekly sabbath is not even mentioned in verse 9. The word is sabbatismos, which means the keeping of a sabbath. It's verb form is used in the LXX to refer to keeping festivals, land sabbaths and the weekly sabbath. There is no specificity in verse 9.

 

[Acadia]

I am going to try explaining something for what is probably a futile attempt at unpackaging the gospel here.


What is disappointing is a lack of understanding of what it means to walk according to the Spirit and know life. You have taken one verse towards a specific person and made that a rule for everyone. When many see the word "saved" they automatically begin to salivate (like Pavlov's dog) and assume it means what they think it means.

Paul also says...

"But Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men remain with the ship, you cannot be saved.” Acts 27:31

Now I have done as you have a picked a verse that is about salvation. Is this about eternal salvation?

Or this...

Luke 17:19 And he told him, "Get up and go on your way. Your faith has saved you."

He was healed.

The Greek word sodzo....means many things...MOSTLY NOT about an eternal kind of salvation.

But that doesn't stop people from twisting the meaning when they desire to.

The Philippian jailer was worried for his life and the lives of his family because of the prison break.

I shared far more than one verse and I took nothing out of context.

Salvation is NOT by works. It is by grace, through faith. No one can boast because they have not earned it and cannot earn it, it is a GIFT. Period.

I’m truly sorry you disagree with that.

 

[Acadia]

Eternal life is found in One person...Jesus Christ. You don't enter into eternal life by just believing about eternal life. You aren't "saved" in an eternal way by just believing about Jesus Christ.

It is like when some claim that unless you believe in the rapture...then you can't be raptured.

If I stop believing in sunburns...does that make me immune from sunburn? If I trust in Jesus rather than say Godzilla or Thor for an eternal cushy place...does that force God to take me in?

It is foolish constructs that have NO basis in truth or reality that have swamped the church and rendered real testimony practically useless. Too many do this.

You mischaracterize what true, saving faith is. That’s unfortunate. I don’t just believe a list of facts about Christ, I TRUST Him entirely for salvation.

Part of that trust is realizing that I CANNOT save myself or trust in my own works or “righteousness”, because I have none and nothing I do is worthy of salvation.

 

[Latour]

I shared far more than one verse and I took nothing out of context.

Salvation is NOT by works. It is by grace, through faith. No one can boast because they have not earned it and cannot earn it, it is a GIFT. Period.

I’m truly sorry you disagree with that.

I'm sorry that you are unable to hear the truth since you have already received a twisted gospel that caters to men.

 

[Acadia]

I'm sorry that you are unable to hear the truth since you have already received a twisted gospel that caters to men.

False. The “twisted Gospel that caters to men” is works based salvation. It is prideful and arrogant and absolutely erroneous to believe one can earn or merit salvation in ANY way. We are saved by the obedience of ONE (and it isn’t us).

We have no reason to boast before the Lord, only in Christ our Saviour. All glory, praise and honour to Him ALONE.

 

[Latour]

You mischaracterize what true, saving faith is. That’s unfortunate. I don’t just believe a list of facts about Christ, I TRUST Him entirely for salvation.

True saving faith brings us into the presence of God...a spiritual place (Zion) from which we walk in the light as He is in the light. This is way farther than us rich Westerners can comprehend...since we are basically, consumer oriented people looking to purchase something to add to our list of possessions. This is how Jesus is presented to us...just another in our list of commodities.

We have been fooled by a false gospel that does NOT lead to any power over sin. Jesus was resurrected from the dead to give us this power...but we are in unbelief. THAT is the opposite of saving faith.

And it doesn't matter how certain you are about your own salvation. It has nothing to do with truth. That must be understood.

Part of that trust is realizing that I CANNOT save myself or trust in my own works or “righteousness”, because I have none and nothing I do is worthy of salvation.

So you justify yourself by not trying to save yourself...BUT YOU ARE DOING THAT! You are claiming your own justification by NOT doing what others are doing for that same justification. But it is 2 sides of the same coin.

Salvation is not about what you think you have.

Otherwise there would be no weeping and gnashing of teeth (no surprises) or no rejection (Lord Lord). But in fact MANY will be rejected from God. And these will have put their FULL confidence in Jesus as their saviour. A person who merely thinks he is doing something in a spiritual way...is just thinking it is so. That doesn't make it real.

But where is the real connection with God? Where is the supernatural power? Where is the walk in His love and peace?

You just can't discern it.

 

[Latour]

False. The “twisted Gospel that caters to men” is works based salvation. It is prideful and arrogant and absolutely erroneous to believe one can earn or merit salvation in ANY way. We are saved by the obedience of ONE (and it isn’t us).

We have no reason to boast before the Lord, only in Christ our Saviour. All glory, praise and honour to Him ALONE.

There are very few "works based" gospel people on this forum. There are only a few who have adopted the law into their faith to try improving their chances with God.

Your faith appears fully imagination based...since you can't discern what works even means.

This is not about doing nothing. It is about a faith that reaches God...for real! Not some imaginary contract with God that some preacher (or an active mind) declared as true.

 

[Latour]

People who claim that they are saved because they are not working for it...are the most fooled people in the world. They see an error of people justifying themselves by trying hard...then they sit back and mock these and declare that same justification by doing nothing.

Amazing!

And this is where we are at with church today! The great apostasy!

 

[Latour]

There is grace ONLY as we abide in Christ. Only He has eternal life. We only come into eternal life (which is His) by entering into Christ so as to walk as He walked. There is no free forgiveness card that makes us not responsible for our own actions. That isn't grace...that is a license to sin.

Grace is the power to do God's will. It comes from the resurrection power of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived the perfect human life. We become partakers of THAT life when we enter into Christ. Those who continue to be ruled by sin have NOT yet entered into Christ. In Christ there is NO sin. Jesus Christ is our victory over sin. He is our perfection. We don't need to try very hard to not sin...the victory is IN HIM.

We enter into Him by faith. That faith brings us under grace...meaning we are entered into Christ and now walk according to the power of the Spirit.

I wrote this awhile back and only got a response from a person fully overcome by sin...but not going through it by the word. Are there any honest debaters here? (I mean people who wish to use the bible and reason...not just mudsling)

 

[Acadia]

True saving faith brings us into the presence of God...a spiritual place (Zion) from which we walk in the light as He is in the light. This is way farther than us rich Westerners can comprehend...since we are basically, consumer oriented people looking to purchase something to add to our list of possessions. This is how Jesus is presented to us...just another in our list of commodities.

We have been fooled by a false gospel that does NOT lead to any power over sin. Jesus was resurrected from the dead to give us this power...but we are in unbelief. THAT is the opposite of saving faith.

And it doesn't matter how certain you are about your own salvation. It has nothing to do with truth. That must be understood.




So you justify yourself by not trying to save yourself...BUT YOU ARE DOING THAT! You are claiming your own justification by NOT doing what others are doing for that same justification. But it is 2 sides of the same coin.

Salvation is not about what you think you have.

Otherwise there would be no weeping and gnashing of teeth (no surprises) or no rejection (Lord Lord). But in fact MANY will be rejected from God. And these will have put their FULL confidence in Jesus as their saviour. A person who merely thinks he is doing something in a spiritual way...is just thinking it is so. That doesn't make it real.

But where is the real connection with God? Where is the supernatural power? Where is the walk in His love and peace?

You just can't discern it.

You can go ahead and continue trusting in works for salvation if you so choose.

Jesus is not going to reject anyone who has done “the will of the Father” and believed on the Son.

I truly hope you will never tell anyone that putting all of their trust and faith in Christ for salvation is not enough. That is a diabolical lie.

We cannot add ANYTHING to Christ’s finished work. He truly did enough to save us and He did not fail.

 

[Acadia]

I wrote this awhile back and only got a response from a person fully overcome by sin...but not going through it by the word. Are there any honest debaters here? (I mean people who wish to use the bible and reason...not just mudsling)

People have used the Bible. You have ignored and dismissed that. Unfortunate.

 

[Latour]

You can go ahead and continue trusting in works for salvation if you so choose.

A salvation that works...not a works based salvation.

You espouse a salvation that doesn't work.

Jesus is not going to reject anyone who has done “the will of the Father” and believed on the Son.

You would have to actually know the will of the father.

I truly hope you will never tell anyone that putting all of their trust and faith in Christ for salvation is not enough. That is a diabolical lie.

The diabolical lie is that what you have decided God will do for you is in any way binding on God.

We cannot add ANYTHING to Christ’s finished work. He truly did enough to save us and He did not fail.

I have not added...you have taken away from. You deny the resurrection power of Jesus by calling it "works." You prefer a salvation that doesn't work.

 

[Latour]

People have used the Bible. You have ignored and dismissed that. Unfortunate.

People have read themselves into some verses....without any touchstone to reality. I have provided verses and spiritual thoughts from God...and you have shown that you are a stranger to these.

 

[Acadia]

There are very few "works based" gospel people on this forum. There are only a few who have adopted the law into their faith to try improving their chances with God.

When it comes to salvation, works do not improve anyone’s chances with God. Salvation is by grace, through faith and NOT of works, lest any man should boast.

Your faith appears fully imagination based...since you can't discern what works even means.

Actually, there’s nothing “imaginary” about it. Grace is grace and works are works; the two cannot be mixed.

This is not about doing nothing. It is about a faith that reaches God...for real!

Our faith in Christ and the Gospel of salvation most definitely “reaches God”, of that we can be absolutely certain. Christ is our Mediator, Great High Priest and Intercessor.

Not some imaginary contract with God that some preacher (or an active mind) declared as true.

The Gospel is not “some imaginary contract with God.” I hope you can truly understand that. Our salvation in Christ is very real and is in fact our only hope of eternal life.

 

[Acadia]

People have read themselves into some verses....without any touchstone to reality. I have provided verses and spiritual thoughts from God...and you have shown that you are a stranger to these.

Go back and read my posts. I took nothing out of context. Your assertions and accusations are false and entirely unfounded.

 

[Acadia]

A salvation that works...not a works based salvation.

You espouse a salvation that doesn't work.

False.

Salvation is by the obedience of ONE. Discipleship (which comes after salvation and is a lifelong commitment) is “our reasonable service.” We grow in God’s grace and in Spiritual maturity throughout our lives once we are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

You would have to actually know the will of the father.

I already shared with you the verses from John 6 where Jesus plainly taught what “the will of the Father is.” The will of the Father is to believe on the Son.

The diabolical lie is that what you have decided God will do for you is in any way binding on God.

I have not decided what God will or will not do for me or anyone else. I truly believe what HIS inspired word tells us all He has done. I believe the Gospel. I believe it is entirely true and that Jesus never fails.

I have not added...you have taken away from. You deny the resurrection power of Jesus by calling it "works." You prefer a salvation that doesn't work.

I deny the resurrection of Jesus? Please quote where I said Christ is not risen. Thanks!

 

[Latour]

False.

Salvation is by the obedience of ONE.

Obedience is a work. So your system doesn't work.

Discipleship (which comes after salvation and is a lifelong commitment) is “our reasonable service.” We grow in God’s grace and in Spiritual maturity throughout our lives once we are born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

If you are already fully saved...how can you grow in grace? If you are already sanctified...how can you grow into more sanctification? Maturity is a work. In your scheme there is no point to maturity...it's already all free. So you are mixing things in that you accuse others of doing....but as wrong.

In your scheme the beginning is the end. Anything else is a work. Since you don't differentiate between a dead work, a work of the law (like circumcision) or a good work...you are just throwing out slogans that have no real application. You are showing a lack of understanding in the concepts you have picked up.

I already shared with you the verses from John 6 where Jesus plainly taught what “the will of the Father is.” The will of the Father is to believe on the Son.

That idea needs unpackaging. How do you believe ON Jesus? The bible says...believe INTO Jesus. What does that mean. Can anyone decide for themselves what this entails?

I have not decided what God will or will not do for me or anyone else.

So then you don't claim to be justified for your beliefs? Isn't that what I am trying to get you to see? MANY believers today judtify themselves by what they think the bible says. Name it and claim it.

I truly believe what HIS inspired word tells us all He has done. I believe the Gospel. I believe it is entirely true and that Jesus never fails.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Is it really our choice whether Jesus died for the world?

I deny the resurrection of Jesus? Please quote where I said Christ is not risen. Thanks!

You trashed my testimony of the power of God that overcomes sin. Most "believers" today are in unbelief that the grace of God is sufficient to overcome all things.

A believer doesn't trash a true rendering of grace. Grace is the resurrection power of Jesus. To be under grace is to walk as Jesus walked. I hope you can look into this...for your own good. A forum such as this can be the most hostile place for the truth. And that is because many spirits have gone into the world...even preaching a gospel...but a gospel that denies the power over sin. It is the easiest gospel to follow...because it claims you have nothing to do...no seeking God. Seeking is seen as bad and a works based salvation. But the whole point of the gospel is not to make people feel good...to to actually hook up with God.

That's how you can discern whether a person is following the Holy Spirit or another Spirit. The Holy Spirit walk is according to power that does the will of God...and believes all the way to where Jesus is. (now this will make no sense to someone who has believed in a gospel that has been tailored to be accepted by the carnal man).

 

[Latour]

When it comes to salvation, works do not improve anyone’s chances with God. Salvation is by grace, through faith and NOT of works, lest any man should boast.

You make this strawman argument about works...that you think justifies your lack of works. But where have I suggested a salvation by works? I am speaking of a real faith that actually reaches God. ...not putting a human belief in certain verses that sound good.

Actually, there’s nothing “imaginary” about it. Grace is grace and works are works; the two cannot be mixed.

You are not saying anything here...again. Grace is power....and your belief is a human work that doesn't have any basis in reality.

Our faith in Christ and the Gospel of salvation most definitely “reaches God”, of that we can be absolutely certain. Christ is our Mediator, Great High Priest and Intercessor.

More empty claims...how do you know this???? What is absolutely certain? Are not Jihadists also certain that they will inherit paradise? Human beings have an infinite capacity for self-delusion.....now add in a spirit of great delusion...and you get a cocktail that makes it very difficult to hear the truth.

The Gospel is not “some imaginary contract with God.” I hope you can truly understand that. Our salvation in Christ is very real and is in fact our only hope of eternal life.

You say "very real". What is that supposed to mean? Are you talking about victory over the devil, the world and sin?

 

[Latour]

Here is a doozie...

We cannot add ANYTHING to Christ’s finished work.

This is the mantra of the purveyors of the powerless gospel. It's what the devil preaches to new believers so they won't advance into any kind of real understanding of the available power from God...especially to walk as Jesus walked.

Now notice how the above lie goes exactly contrary to the bible.

2 Pet. 2:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

So are we to add to the initial work of Christ....or not?

We will be judged on what WE have produced with what God has given to us. We will be judged by our works.

This is just one point of many....

Who can discern what the devil has tampered with?

 

[Acadia]

Obedience is a work. So your system doesn't work.

What is the answer Jesus gives to the question “what must we do to work the works of God?”

If you are already fully saved...how can you grow in grace? If you are already sanctified...how can you grow into more sanctification? Maturity is a work. In your scheme there is no point to maturity...it's already all free. So you are mixing things in that you accuse others of doing....but as wrong.

Salvation is salvation, discipleship is discipleship. They are not the same thing. Salvation, which is entirely by the grace of God, comes first. Discipleship is our “reasonable service” as already saved, born again believers.

In your scheme the beginning is the end. Anything else is a work. Since you don't differentiate between a dead work, a work of the law (like circumcision) or a good work...you are just throwing out slogans that have no real application. You are showing a lack of understanding in the concepts you have picked up.

The Gospel of salvation in Christ is hardly a “scheme.” It’s unfortunate that you despise grace so much.

That idea needs unpackaging. How do you believe ON Jesus? The bible says...believe INTO Jesus. What does that mean. Can anyone decide for themselves what this entails?

I have never read a translation that uses the word “into.” I’m not sure which translation you use, but it seems you are attempting to play pointless word games.

So then you don't claim to be justified for your beliefs?

I’m justified by Christ and only by Him. I do not take any credit for what HE did to save me.

Isn't that what I am trying to get you to see? MANY believers today judtify themselves by what they think the bible says. Name it and claim it.

I despise “name it and claim it” prosperity preaching and I said nothing in support of it. Your comment makes no sense.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Is it really our choice whether Jesus died for the world?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Again, your comment makes no sense. The Gospel was God’s decision, not ours. We can take no credit for what He did to save us.

You trashed my testimony of the power of God that overcomes sin.

I did no such thing. I have only given God the glory in overcoming sin, not myself.

Most "believers" today are in unbelief that the grace of God is sufficient to overcome all things.

Nothing I wrote denies the overcoming power of God’s grace. Those who add their own “righteous works” to salvation in Christ, they are the ones who do not believe Christ did enough to save.

A believer doesn't trash a true rendering of grace.

Exactly. So you should really ask yourself what it is that you are doing just that.

Grace is the resurrection power of Jesus. To be under grace is to walk as Jesus walked. I hope you can look into this...for your own good. A forum such as this can be the most hostile place for the truth. And that is because many spirits have gone into the world...even preaching a gospel...but a gospel that denies the power over sin. It is the easiest gospel to follow...because it claims you have nothing to do...no seeking God. Seeking is seen as bad and a works based salvation. But the whole point of the gospel is not to make people feel good...to to actually hook up with God.

You are mixing grace with works. That is a false gospel. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation or to merit it. That is precisely why it is of grace and NOT works.

That's how you can discern whether a person is following the Holy Spirit or another Spirit. The Holy Spirit walk is according to power that does the will of God...and believes all the way to where Jesus is. (now this will make no sense to someone who has believed in a gospel that has been tailored to be accepted by the carnal man).

The “will of the Father” is to believe on the Son. Whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.