Should Christians Follow Scripture Alone or Scripture and Traditions?

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,896
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#81
Jesus give us scripture

Correct! The scriptures come from God and Jesus Christ is The Word of God. :love:(y)

WHO gave us traditions? NOT God. :unsure:

WHO should we follow… the Giver of the scriptures or the giver of traditions? :unsure:
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
113
#82
Jesus give us scripture
Jesus didn't give us any Scripture, He gave us His Church. Jesus never gave us anything in writing. In fact the old Testement was written by God's people, with inspiration from the Holy Spirit andk it was members of Jesus' Church that wrote Scripture, the New Testament, with inspiration and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

What Scripture do you think Jesus gave us?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#83
WHO gave us scripture and WHO gave us traditions?

WHO should we follow?
Such a good point.
We can check on the NT by looking at the old testament. The NT is a fulfillment of the OT. A third of the NT is copied from the OT.

For the first 300 years after Christ scripture and church tradition was not added to, mostly. At 325 Constantine, Roman Emperor, called a Christian Council and told them that through the Holy Spirit they were given power to decide Christian traditions. They said their man made laws were God given laws.

A problem the church has had is with the law of Moses and the law of Christ. God gave Moses the law for us in fleshly terms like circumcision, and Christ changed the law into a spiritual law. The law remained the same. As an example, do not murder was true under Moses and Christ, but oh., what a change it made in that law.

God created us and our world and also the word. It is best not to change any of it. Man has decided to change our food--refine grain, process oil instead of pressing, and "improve" what our livestock eat. Even food left as God created it is good, when man improves it, it even sometimes kills us.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#84
What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he spoke, "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

How does this fit in with Sola Scriptura?
Paul was vague enough about what the traditions were that it allows people to sorta make up whatever they want. If the traditions are stated in the New Testament then I think they are good to follow, but otherwise a strict Biblical interpretation is needed.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
113
#85
Major problems with Sola Scriptura being the only source of God's truth and why it isn't a true doctrine is that, there was no canon of the Bible, Old and New Testament until 300 years after Christ. And, until the invention of the printing press in 1450, bibles were extremely scarce as they had to be hand copied. And don't forget, until the 1900s, almost all people were illiterate, couldn't read or write. What good would a Bible do for someone who couldn't read or write?

Yet, despite these problems, God's truth persevered throughout the centuries.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,803
631
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#86
The Apostle's instructions. They did more talked more then all thats written there to them. Years could have passed blah blah blah
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#87
Correct! The scriptures come from God and Jesus Christ is The Word of God. :love:(y)

WHO gave us traditions? NOT God. :unsure:

WHO should we follow… the Giver of the scriptures or the giver of traditions? :unsure:
What do you mean by tradition
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#88
The Apostle's instructions. They did more talked more then all thats written there to them. Years could have passed blah blah blah
What are in that oral instruction
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,896
3,636
113
#89
What do you mean by tradition
Man made law…

ALL denominations, all the man made laws of the Jewish Pharisees,… anytime man in his pride and human reasoning says, “this is the way! Do this!” :rolleyes:

There’s NO LOVE! If it’s God, there should be LOVE. :love:(y)
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,048
1,325
113
Australia
#90
Because it is a Tradition doesn't make it bad or evil, but we need to make sure they are not teaching or promoting things contrary to the word, scripture.
Test all things.
Tradition needs to be tested too.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,048
1,325
113
Australia
#91
What do you mean by tradition
Things that are practised and come to be seen as normal, comon and acceptable practices.
With time they become more and more accepted as right or true.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
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London
christianchat.com
#92
What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he spoke, "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

How does this fit in with Sola Scriptura?
The RCC does not hold fast to the traditions of Paul. He taught and wrote to them sola scriptura.

Can you imagine Paul saying mass? dressed as Roman senator?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
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London
christianchat.com
#93
"Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

Again, that is no reference to Scripture Alone. In fact Jesus nor Paul believed in Scripture alone for the only source of God's truth. In fact, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His early disciples/church and that the Spirit would lead them to truth.

When Jesus ascended, He didn't write a book he left the church he founded to pass on God's truth. Furthermore, there was no recognized Bible for 300 years after Jesus ascended.
The bible is God's word written down ... God's word is to be found nowhere else.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#94
Well, you mention 3 things, Jackson. Let me take just one for now. Even before the New Testament, the Old Testament Maccabees prayed for the departed, which is based on purgatory: "Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin." (2 Macc 12:46) Even the Jews believe in purgatory, as you can read in the Jewish enyclopedia here: https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12446-purgatory

In the New Testament, St. Paul the Apostle says in 1 Cor 3:13-15 that some receive a reward for good works done in faith, while other Christians are saved only through fire: "13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." That has traditionally been understood as a reference to Purgatory.

This site (https://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory/#I_The_Early_Churchs_Belief_in_Purgatory) mentions the Early Church's Belief in Purgatory with documentary evidence:

"Tradition / Church Fathers
I. The Early Church’s Belief in Purgatory
“And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again receives her. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shaft have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the just.” Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160).

God Bless.
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#95
"Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

Again, that is no reference to Scripture Alone. In fact Jesus nor Paul believed in Scripture alone for the only source of God's truth. In fact, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His early disciples/church and that the Spirit would lead them to truth.

When Jesus ascended, He didn't write a book he left the church he founded to pass on God's truth. Furthermore, there was no recognized Bible for 300 years after Jesus ascended.
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#96
Jesus didn't give us any Scripture, He gave us His Church. Jesus never gave us anything in writing. In fact the old Testement was written by God's people, with inspiration from the Holy Spirit andk it was members of Jesus' Church that wrote Scripture, the New Testament, with inspiration and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

What Scripture do you think Jesus gave us?
How Jesus give a church?

jesus give a teaching, and Mathew, Luke, mark and John make document
so the teaching or scripture is from Jesus
 
P

persistent

Guest
#97
How Jesus give a church?

jesus give a teaching, and Mathew, Luke, mark and John make document
so the teaching or scripture is from Jesus
You are saying the teachings of Jesus are now the scriptures and the scriptures are the writings in the documents of Matthew and Mark and the rest of the NT?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#98
Here is the Word of God telling us that, in addition to written epistles, the unwritten traditions orally handed down to the Church are to be faithfully held on to by the Church/Christians.

2 Thess 2:15

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

:)
Paul wrote that letter
so tradition in that letter mean what Christian did before that letter being write

for example if he wrote in the year 57 AD mean we have to hold the Christian tradition or what Christian did from the year Christian born till the years 57, I don’t think thy do pray to Mary
I don’t think they teach purgatory
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
Major problems with Sola Scriptura being the only source of God's truth and why it isn't a true doctrine is that, there was no canon of the Bible, Old and New Testament until 300 years after Christ. And, until the invention of the printing press in 1450, bibles were extremely scarce as they had to be hand copied. And don't forget, until the 1900s, almost all people were illiterate, couldn't read or write. What good would a Bible do for someone who couldn't read or write?

Yet, despite these problems, God's truth persevered throughout the centuries.
Where’s the problem?