In Col 1: 24-29 Paul describes a mystery that was hidden from ages and from generations. Apparently it is still a mystery for many people on this thread. Paul tells us what the mystery is. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory. God's glory is His Holy Spirit which in Isaiah 63: 9-10 is described as the "angel of His presence". In otherwords, where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is. When Jesus ascended back to heaven to get glorified, he received from the Father a glorified body made up of people who receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit acts as a portal through which Christ can enter the being indwelled, and since Christ is filled with the Father's presence, both Father and Son enter our beings. That is how a person is born again. They work inside the person's being to change his motivation from love of self to love of God first and all others as he loves himself. John 14:23. Father and Son cannot fail, which means that if a so-called Christian loses his salvation by reverting back to his old ways, he never had it to begin with.
Searching For Truth Seekers!
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1 Cor 3: 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? What this verse is clearly stating is that when Jesus Christ baptizes you in the name of the Holy Spirit, you receive this portal into your being through which both Father and Son can enter.
Eph 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Since the Father's presence is in the Son because the Son is filled with His Holy Spirit, when the Son enters our being when we get baptized with the Holy Spirit, so will the Father.
John 7: 39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, whom they that believe on him should receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.) When Jesus went back to the Father to get glorified, he was given a spiritual body made up of all those chosen by the Father to be baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit. All those baptized with the Holy Spirit receive a portal through which the Son can enter our beings, and we become temples of both Father and Son because the Son is the temple of the Father.
John 14: 16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even (that is) the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. Jesus will come to them, and to us, when they, and we, receive the portal through which he can enter their, and our, beings. The portal is the Holy Spirit.
Eph 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Since the Father's presence is in the Son because the Son is filled with His Holy Spirit, when the Son enters our being when we get baptized with the Holy Spirit, so will the Father.
John 7: 39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, whom they that believe on him should receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.) When Jesus went back to the Father to get glorified, he was given a spiritual body made up of all those chosen by the Father to be baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit. All those baptized with the Holy Spirit receive a portal through which the Son can enter our beings, and we become temples of both Father and Son because the Son is the temple of the Father.
John 14: 16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even (that is) the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. Jesus will come to them, and to us, when they, and we, receive the portal through which he can enter their, and our, beings. The portal is the Holy Spirit.
Maybe I can clear something up?
I'm the one who started the thread, GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.
It's not that I don't like gwh, I don't know him, the problem is what comes out of his mouth. I feel bad for him.
The reason I started it was we were going back and forth on what GOD'S word says and he shared his opinion and I keep pushing him to prove his opinion with GOD'S word so he told me to start my own thread.
Later I found out by him, he wanted me to leave that thread due to my question and he didn't like it on the thread he started.
This is his comments that I shared on on page 1 of GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs. Note: this in not all of page 1, the first part I shared GODS word to prove him wrong.
gwhs statements.
1. The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #821
"GW says WB was replaced with SB because they are two separate things: one is an outward work that may be imitated, while the other is the inward faith in JESUS that is salvific."
2. The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation #976
GWH
Just noticed this point: Yes, believers are either Spirit-filled or not, and love is the evidence of filling that justifies believing someone is filled (and the basis of spiritual unity) per John 13:35.
3. The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvationon #1,082
Regarding speaking in tongues, the original occurrence at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) was earthly languages given as a sign of reversing Babel for the purpose of evangelism, but by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth it had morphed into mere babble, which Paul tried to quash tactfully (1Cor. 14:19), possibly because even pagan religions practiced it. Again, the purpose of the original gift at Pentecost and for a while longer was to fulfill prophecy and ensure the planting of the first Christian church, but that gift apparently ceased after the apostolic era (1Cor. 13:8-13) and was perverted by some into a faux gift of mere babbling, so one should not be myopic and focus only on a problematic proof-text (1Cor. 14:18-20).
My questions to him was,
Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.
Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.
Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.
Prove that speaking in tongues stopped.
He has not answered to date.
THIS is the last post on GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs. #380
I have started 14 threads, but the only one with my initials on it is this one, so I adopted it,
and I have answered all questions, but you refuse to learn, so I have given up and
referred you to the website I bequeath to all fellow TSers: <truthseekersfellowship.com>
excerpts from which are in post #378 so that unbiased readers can check your accusations.
I believe my understanding of GW is more right than yours,
but I will not be sucked into playing ping pong ball with the demeanor denomination,
whose members have agreed with your pejorative posts on this thread plus most tulipists.
END RESULT, in the past I told him to back up what he says with GOD'S word or it's a lie from Satan.
Post #308, He NEVER answered those questions, he think what comes out of him mouth trump's what JESUS says and as you can see he took over my post and who cares.
If I wrong in anyway I have no problem admitting it. I gave him plenty of time to answer those questions before I called him a liar.
Of course to him, I'm the problem.
You be the judge. GOD BLESS YOU in your walk.
Oh I see well that is quite vexing isn't it? I have had to deal with the same issues on another forum with a jehova witness believer and I think I do remember this conversation between you two and I am sorry you two could not have an actual discussion evading answering things while claiming you answered them is not a good sign especially for one calling themselves truth seekers
What is vexing is Ouch ignoring where I thanked him for helping me to adjust my opinion and amend our website as follows:
Judaizers, Sabbatarians and Actsists
Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith.”
Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.
The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.
The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.
By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.
Regarding speaking in tongues (SIT), the original occurrence of SIT at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for awhile longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church. However, by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth apparently it had morphed into mere pagan-like babbling (cf. Matt. 6:9), which Paul neither quashed completely nor commanded, writing that the gift would cease (1Cor. 13:8-13) as love continued forever but also that he exercised it more than anyone (1Cor. 14:18), thereby causing confusion.
This confusion and apparent contradiction can be resolved by noting that if SIT were important it would be mentioned and even commanded in other epistles, so the absence of affirming SIT in other Pauline epistles speaks volumes. Thus, whenever SIT is claimed, it is right to test whether it is genuine or pagan (1Thes. 5:21). Certainly, if someone suddenly is enabled to speak an unlearned earthly language, that can be verified and considered miraculous, but interpretation of babbling is impossible to verify. Thus, disagreement can continue regarding the occurrence of SIT in private prayer, although there is no Scriptural warrant for viewing it as signifying Spirit filling rather than love (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21).
So in short the conversation between you two was never really resolved was it? and it also seems that a third party may be needed to help you two sort this out because it seeems you and @Ouch cannot come to an understanding and there seems to be in their mind that you keep evading questions so that is an issue that needs to be fixed if this is the case
You can say that again! If you see any question that is not answered in what I just shared in #127,
feel free to ask it.
I find it necessary to point out errors in your comments regarding scripture.
John the Baptist's message concerning water baptism had nothing to do with the OT law. What John introduced was later modified to include the name of Jesus as it directly relates to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. "Repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) This scripture relative to the NT reveals receiving the Holy Ghost did not replace the water baptism requirement. This truth is confirmed by every detailed conversion account. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
The details presented on the Day of Pentecost reveal how people can experience the NT rebirth that Jesus died to provide. Nothing has changed, they continue to be required until Jesus returns. Note, He will return for His bride has made herself ready for the marriage supper. Made herself ready. How? Through the NT rebirth, and confessing Jesus to a lost and dying world.
The epistles don't alter the message presented at Pentecost. They express what is and is not acceptable from born again children of God.
In Acts 19, some 20+ years after Pentecost the message remained the same; Paul expressed the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus, and after laying hands upon the 12 they received the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in tongues.
Hopefully people will not rely on your perspective but actually study the scripture to see what is and is not true.
WHY WOULD YOU SAY "YES"??????
When I shared what you said to Blain it was to help him decide for himself problems others here on CC had with you.
I'm not adresseing Blain to anything, I'm not putting Blain between you and I.
JESUS is between you and I.
The questions I asked,
Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.
Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.
Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.
Prove that speaking in tongues stopped.
Do you know what the questions are?
Did you read them?
You did NOT answer any of the questions I asked with HIS word, but your SAME OLD, SAME OLD VERY WORDED OPINION of what HIS word says.
My statments about you stand.
It was actually the fulfillment of an old covenant shadow of the law in which the high priest was commisioned into the Levitcal priesthood by being washed with water, anointed and vested with holy garments of righteousness.
As the fulfillment of that type, Jesus was commissioned into the order of Melchizedek by the greatest Levitical priest to ever exist, ie John, through being immersed in water and anointed with holy spirit. He was already clothed with holiness and righteousness as witnessed by God's voice saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased"
And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith. And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim. And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the LORD commanded Moses. Leviticus 8:6-9
And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him. Leviticus 8:12
Yes, people should read Scripture rather than relying on either of our perspectives, and when they do so they will learn that
Luke 16:16a says "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time the good news of the kingdom of God
is being preached."
John the Baptist is associated with the OT also in Matthew 3:3, which quotes Isaiah 40:5, and is referenced in Matthew 11:10-13, where Jesus concluded by saying "All the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come."
Are you willing to accept it?
Well, Blain, you have your work cut out for you! Are you sorry for mentioning that a third party is needed?
I understand what you are going through the same is happening to me on another forum. @GWH can you please answer his questions with scripture if possible because it seems you did not do this and not with an opinion of any sorts but with scripture if you can.
Well, Blain, you have your work cut out for you! Are you sorry for mentioning that a third party is needed?
Blain has NOTHING to do you and the words that come out of your mouth.
It's between you and JESUS ALONE.
Your the one who thinks your opinion trumps HIS WORD!!
It's not to late for you to repent, but your so puffed up with yourself, I really don't even think you see the problem?
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Notice, you have to deny yourself.
I understand that apparently you did not read post #127 either, because it contains more Scripture than Ouch's rants/opinions!
Please do so, and THEN state specifically which question you do not find answered. Thanks.