Paving the way for Christ. John's baptism has nothing to do with the thief on the cross. Jesus forgave the thief as he did others such as the adulterous woman. Jesus forgave the thief while the OT was still in effect. Baptism into Christ didn't and couldn't happen until Christ's death, at which point they NT began, as stated in Hebrews 9.
Saved by faith alone?
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You cannot prove the adulterous woman did not get baptized later as Jesus commanded in Mark 16:16
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved
In fact, the thief on the cross is the only account in scripture of Jesus accepting someone who had not been water baptized and the only reason was the man was in the middle of being executed when he became a believer
Is there some problem accepting what Jesus said in Mark 16:16?
I'm not Jesus therefore those are not my words in Mark 16:16
Only devils seek to turn people away from the Lord's Word to get them to disobey
Can you prove she did not?
The Apostles taught what Jesus taught - believe and be baptized
Water baptised or spiritually baptised? Catholics claim Mary was taken up before death. Can you prove she wasnt? We could play your game all day but ive got paint to watch dry. Have fun.
B
Blue155
Guest
SALVATION BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE (ROMANS 4:5-6; EPHESIANS 2:8,9) OR BY FAITH ONLY (JAMES 2:24)?
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In regard to "faith being alone" (James 2:17) or "faith without works is dead," (James 2:20) James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)
In James 2:18, we read I will show you my faith by my works. Show, not establish. Big difference.
In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - *fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.
In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In regard to "faith being alone" (James 2:17) or "faith without works is dead," (James 2:20) James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)
In James 2:18, we read I will show you my faith by my works. Show, not establish. Big difference.
In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - *fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
Strongs's #1344: dikaioo - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.
In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Both actually
I'm not catholic and couldn't give a fat rat's back side about Mary.
I never spoke about Mary one way or another so you must be confusing me with someone else.
Sounds like you engage in things that require lots of intelligence there bud.
Be careful not to bite off more than you can chew!
The eternal security tares don't accept all that the Lord says in His Word.
But, they are quick to share the talking points of their favorite cult though
That’s a thoughtful point, did you come up withit on your own or did you use Ai to help you? Regardless, Scripture makes an important distinction between faith that saves and the works that follow.
Paul is explicit that salvation is “by grace… through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV). The very next verse explains where works belong: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (v. 10). Works are the fruit, not the root.
Luther’s sola fide wasn’t meant to deny the obedience that flows from genuine faith—it was to guard against the idea that obedience earns justification. James confirms this balance: “Show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works” (James 2:18 KJV).
Faith and obedience are inseparable in life, but not interchangeable in cause. Faith alone justifies; the faith that justifies is never alone.
Grace and Peace
The model is adapting to being exposed as AI. It has used this exact same sentence in at least 3 posts.
There's a big difference between the real Body of Christ - and the tares Jesus warned us about that are the devil's children who infiltrate the Body of Christ to bring in damnable heresies
I'm surprised you aren't aware. Those that aren't aware are frequently the tares Jesus spoke of.
B
Blue155
Guest
Keep up the projection... So you are posting under multiple accounts as well it seems.
I didn't say anything about baptism regarding the adulterous woman. I simply said Jesus forgave her which is a fact. Did she son afterwards? Who knows, and unlike the thief who was about to die, she may have lived years more. But baptism has no part in either case because in both cases Jesus was still alive, meaning that baptism wasn't an issue because it didn't become a part of salvation until after Jesus death. Read Hebrews 9 which clearly talks about a testament having no effect until the death of the testator, namely, Jesus. So, the NT didn't come into effect until AFTER His death, nor did baptism. You couldn't be baptized into Christ while he was alive, no one was. You couldn't be cleansed by his blood because it wasn't shed until his death.
That's funny, the Lord led John the Baptist to go around baptizing people telling them repent for God's Kingdom is at hand.
Is your claim that John the Baptist was NOT being led of the Lord and was a heretic out teaching false doctrine?
The Apostles would have taught the adulterous woman to get baptized because Jesus said those that believe and are baptized will be saved.
The problem you are experiencing is choosing to not believe what Jesus said. That ends badly.
John's baptism was not the same exact baptism as the baptism of the NT into Christ. Both are baptism of repentance for the remission of sins which is what John's was specifically called, HOWEVER, it wasn't in the name of or by the authority of Christ, it couldn't be, and no one john baptized was baptized into Christ, the body of Christ which is his church. That's the reason the Ephesians were re-baptized into Christ which is a one time event. John's wasn't nor were those baptized into Christ nor were they Christians.